kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 129 

Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 
From: "I.Juster" 
Subject: Re: Leaving

>God isn't an entity, but rather  'everything that is',  which includes
hate, as you 
>call it. When you learn to accept  'that which is'  without labelling it
one way or 
>the other, you begin to  'see'  it for what it truly  'is'. 
>
>It is the concepts, which we have devised, that keeps us from  'seeing' .

Thank you so much for writing this. 

I was gone for a week and came back to a huge pile of messages at once. 

At times my judgement arose that there were too many messages, or too much
chatter, or too this, or too that. 

And yet, my goal is to learn as much as I can about kundalini, and to make k
friends. In the process I have received invaluable support, friendship, and
ideas. I hope to give these things as well as receive them.

For all my judgments, I still see that the k touches on all aspects of our
lives. Our bodies, our hearts, our spirits, and our minds are affected. In
each post, I have learned more about some aspect of k.
-
No we are not saints, we are human. Together we (plus all other k people)
define the k in the totality of our experiences, both loving and hateful,
blissful and angry, body and soul, etc. 

Why filter out some of the discussion? How do you know what you will miss
when you do? For me there has been beauty and priceless moments even in the
mundane, as well as lofty heights.

Who will be the one to judge what gets filtered? (Other than material which
displays  intentionally offensive behavior.) 


I for one express my gratitude to all who showed up to play. I seek to
accept you as I find you. I have all my judgements, yet I seek to see
throught them into the lights that shine in all our hearts. (I'm still
learning how to do this!)

Love and Light, 

Patti



Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 
From: "I.Juster" 
Subject: Re: Economic loss

If we can assume that our group is reflective of what goes on for people who
have k experiences in general, then the answer is most obviously yes.
-
So much has also been written about in the overall literature. K is a
creative, evolutionary force--just like sex.

Now many here are very judgemental about the word sex, and get all upset
when someone suggests a connection.

For me personally, energy is energy. To me, the sexual energy is the
spiritual energy, is the heart energy, is the mind energy. The energy can
manifest in many ways. So to say for example that one type of energy is
"wrong" or "lower than" makes no sense. 

A flower has roots, leaves, a stem, petals, and pollen. They are all part of
the flower. Perhaps the root gives us food (as in  the lotus root), the
flower inspiration. The pollen makes possible new lotuses. Is one part less
than another? The lotus dances on the physical plane, the energy runs
through the whole being. It embraces the earth as it embraces the sky above.

I myself have fantasized about a place on the net where sex could be
discussed reasonably, not like to be perverted, but from the heart, in awe
and respect for this aspect, in a natural way, as easily as one might
discuss love or enlightenement. 

Because I feel that were we to love our bodies more, this love might carry
over to love for our planet, and the other species who share this planet
with us. Our culture teaches us that bodies are vile, and that only spirit
has value. But as long as the body is reviled, and held to be lower than
spirit, and separate from spirit, the rape of the planet will continue full
force. As it is, there is little time left, IMHO.

In love and peace,

Patti



Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: Loss

I used to think K was good. Deep down, I still do, but it's hard. Lonely.
If I knew it was goingbto be like this, I think I would have reconsidered.
Once on K is awakened from a Guru and a person is no longer happy, can
that person renounce their intiation and go back to how the person was
before the K awakening experience. Or must the person seek another Guru or
go to church or something. I used to think K would enrich my life, now I
leave a warning to all who have never been initiated. Make sure it is what
you want and you're ready! Don't just jump into it like me. There's
consequences to every action. It's not for everybody. This warning is not
meant to put fear, but only to tell those to follow their heart, not their
ego. That's what I did, and it seems I'm being widdled away emotionally,
piece by piece and it's not fun. In hind sight, I think a Guru can be a
great help, but an aquaintance on this list once told me we are our own
guru's. Therfore we are responsible for what happens, give or take a few
things, and can choose to act or react or do nothing at all. He is wiser
and older than I, but the root of the truth is that sometimes, I feel like
I sold my soul or something because since Shakti-Pat my life hasn't been
easier, it's been more frustrating and in some ways harder. Perhaps that
is the way it's supposed to be. I don't know. I'm just a guy who jumped
into the pool without checking how deep it was. It's my responsibility,
but I ask those who may be wiser or more experienced than I to answer my
mail and tell me. Is my emotional state and the events around me the
normal course of my life or can I change things. And can I change guru's?
Can I trust god above as my guru instead of a person or group? Can I
renounce my Shakti-Pat intiation and move on? Those who may know me now I
am erratic and theatrical, but these are sincere questions. Someone please
answer me.

Thank you all for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,

Mark Rivera



Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: leaving

Michelle,
Your leaving also goes against your philosophy if you really believe that all
is from God, pain, pleasure, good words, bad words, love, misunderstanding,
isn't this all a part of the illusion. So, I know you feel that it is best
that you do move on, which is fine, but you are also reacting, projecting,
manipulating. Isn't this just the lower self at work. I havne't had time to
answer posts here the past few days because I have tons of e-mail. I am no
longer on one list, and so I am able to participate more. Gloria


-
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: more kundalini

Dan,
Everything has a vibration doesn't it? When your immune system is weak it is
very easy to become allergic to things in our environment, but when the
immune system kicks in and is functioning you can just as easy kick the
allergic reactions. This has been my experience. Things that I was seriously
allergic to, without shots, have fallen away since being on the magentic
mattress pad and pillow. Why? It's because of the magnetic field that works
with my magnetic field creating the perfect environment for the immune system
to do its work during deep sleep. If you don't get into the rem sleep, it is
hard for the body to repair itself. That is the work time. Check out the
magnetics, if you want info send your snail mail. Gloria I've cut my allergy
medicine in half in the past two months, and I've totally away from muscle
relaxors that I used for muscle spasms. Gone. And, the smoke here has been
unbelievable many people are going to emergency every day. My eyes burn but
I'm not swelling up, or having sinus infections as before. 
-


Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: kundalini and me.

Richard and all,
Perhaps we should all sleep on what and where we wish to go with the list. It
seems a lot of people are getting blown away, but I also feel this is still a
part of the dance. You know if we all tune into the love of Christ we can
lift this, and even come into it with some very creative, spontaneous fresh
ideas on how to communicate and make this really something beautiful. How
does this hit all of you?  I have a few thoughts come to me that would be
enlightening and real sharing. We can be creative with this. We have what 145
people on the list, that is big, but what if each day and night we really
work at meeting out of the body, and bringing back with us some aspect of the
awareness so the synchronicity works via the airwaves. You know this is all
illusion that we are sitting in different rooms typing away on our keyboards,
can we transcend the barriers. I do this all the time with the group I work
with and it is very enlightening when others can carry on the self
remembering process. What do you know about self remembering? Gloria



Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: more kundalini

At 10:41 PM 9/1/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Dan,
>Everything has a vibration doesn't it? When your immune system is weak it is
>very easy to become allergic to things in our environment, but when the
>immune system kicks in and is functioning you can just as easy kick the
>allergic reactions.

yes, it's been interesting. part of my weakness was coming off a HUGE high
of adreneline the day before, which I think had a MAJOR additive to my
health problem and allergic reaction and infection. I just came off the
adreneline which means my body was very low on energy, and of course, you're
depleted in a lot of things, and suseptable to this sort of thing. the
allergy i'm pretty sure is attributed to my vibrational change from the k.
Dan.
There are always possibilities...



Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Loss
-
At 10:22 PM 9/1/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I used to think K was good. Deep down, I still do, but it's hard. Lonely.
>If I knew it was goingbto be like this, I think I would have reconsidered.
>Once on K is awakened from a Guru and a person is no longer happy, can
>that person renounce their intiation and go back to how the person was
>before the K awakening experience.

Mark, I know what you're going through. I had my k about 5 weeks ago, that's
when it started. there was 2 weeks of notice before that, that I now
recognize as the warning symptoms. I too jumped in, because the symptoms
were being bothersome. and probably too early. (damn straight it was too
early!) anyhow while I am no expert and dont try to be, or wish to come
across that way, I want you to understand, as someone who is very aware of
something you are going through, I understand completely, because I too am
in the midst of it!

there is one thing which Dr. Kason has told me in session and others have
repeated many times, there are two "bad" things you can do once k has started. 

the WORST thing you can do is try to "block" the energy, try and stop it
from flowing. This can cause massive medical, mental, and spiritual
problems. this can have severe consequences. Remember, the operative word
here is "can", that doesnt mean it has to, just a general "rule of thumb".

the second "worst" thing you can do is induce long meditations. meditations
are fine, but try to keep them short, like half an hour or something. long
meditations are a "no no", by that I mean, they will induce the continuance
(aftershocks) of the k.

by the way, everyone, Dr. Kason really liked my analogy of describing
kundalini as an earthquake, and the ensuing recurring things as aftershocks.
It seems to fit really well to me.

anyhow, as someone famous once said, you've signed up for the trip laddy,
and i'm afraid you're along for the duration. 

during my bouts of k, and spasms and medical problems I would oft think k
was not something I would wish on my worst enemy. even now, a "Friend" is
"pining" for a k, and he's got massive ego problems. I'm just hoping it
holds off until he's a bit more ready. he's been half trying to induce it. I
just shake my head in wonder, and hope that some of the horror stories i
tell him about my occurances scare him off a bit. it seems to be working.

now before you all get mad and upset about those last few comments, please
remember that sometimes k feels like a living hell, and i am by no means
"done" with such sessions, in fact, i'm coming up to a rather big one soon,
which i've been dreading but at the same time in wonder about because I know
it will cause a great transformation within me which I'm really looking
forward to.
-
and yet, after all this, and the dread and the worry, and the trepedation,
there comes the happiness, the awareness, the perception, the
self-confidence, the self-knowing, the universally-aware. the gifts, the
talents, the peace, the knowledge, and the wisdom.

k to me (the uneducated in these matters, for the most part) seems at both
times a terrible curse and the most wonderous gift one can be given all
wrapped in one neat package. you know the old saying, to get something
really great, you must be willing to sacrafice. I'm not saying it's true in
this case, just that it's an old saying that fits.

I read your message with such understanding and knowing, and the relief
someone out there knew what this really meant, I was literally laughing
hysterically. I really needed that. Sort of laughing and crying at the same
time, because I'm in the same boat.

so as the specialists like to say: "Relax!" (heh) and each day connect with
your "higher self", guides, whathaveyou, and ask for help and guidance.
Dan.
There are always possibilities...



Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Economic loss

At 06:13 AM 9/2/96 -0700, you wrote:
>If we can assume that our group is reflective of what goes on for people who
>have k experiences in general, then the answer is most obviously yes.
>
>So much has also been written about in the overall literature. K is a
>creative, evolutionary force--just like sex.

speaking of such, it seems many people have mentioned to me that K increases
the sexual energy within you (most likely to do with opening the 2nd chakra).

>Because I feel that were we to love our bodies more, this love might carry
>over to love for our planet, and the other species who share this planet
>with us. Our culture teaches us that bodies are vile, and that only spirit
>has value. But as long as the body is reviled, and held to be lower than
>spirit, and separate from spirit, the rape of the planet will continue full
>force. As it is, there is little time left, IMHO.

the chief force responsible for lack of discussion of sex is society, which
says its wrong, and has been so drilled into our psyche's that we believe it
rather strongly, and view it morally and ethically wrong as well. it will
probably remain the last taboo of our world, if it lasts that long.

speaking of which, man continues to rape the planet figuratively and
literally, and you're more right that you know on the limited time remaining.
Dan.
There are always possibilities...



Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 
From: nannuATNOSPAMsuncoastonline.com
Subject: Re: Loss, ....oooh SHIT!, what has I got into!?...
-
The wisdom of an ancient Kundalini master:

                                  "To those who would enter upon this path,
                                           be it known,   ...there is NO return..."


Onward and forward young man, ...or something like that... Only when there is 
nothing left to hold onto will you be free of your demons! You are in the throws 
of death,...of the ego, that is,...  Be strong, take it like a man! Head up,...chest 
out! Look it straight in the eye with determination!, fortitude, ...and AWE!  And 
know, with everything in you, that no matter what happens,  ..."You did it 
yooour way! Cause what is a man?,..what has he got-t-t?, ...if not himself, then 
he has not!  And thru it al-l-l, you took the blo-o-o-ws and did it yooooooor 
waaaaaay!!!.........."



Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: Loss, ....oooh SHIT!, what has I got into!?..

While I'm sure you mean well by your letter, I'd just like to say I wish
you were wrong. You're letter was taunting, but what else is there to
expect. Sometimes, I feel like turning away from everything and becoming
corrupt. Problem is, it has never truly been in my nature. Yet in this
world, bad is far more rewarded than good, so I say if I'm damned anyway,
what have I to lose. I wish I was still ignorant. Ignoranceis bliss. Life
with awareness growing and one's self shrinking is like a cancer eating
away at everything one loves. When I got Shakti-Pat, I thought my life
would become more eniched. It's only harder and I'm only more depressed.
Sometimes, I wish I were dead.



Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Loss, ....oooh SHIT!, what has I got into!?..

At 04:37 AM 9/2/96 -0400, you wrote:
>While I'm sure you mean well by your letter, I'd just like to say I wish
>you were wrong. You're letter was taunting, but what else is there to
>expect. Sometimes, I feel like turning away from everything and becoming
>corrupt. Problem is, it has never truly been in my nature. Yet in this
>world, bad is far more rewarded than good, so I say if I'm damned anyway,
>what have I to lose. I wish I was still ignorant. Ignoranceis bliss. Life
>with awareness growing and one's self shrinking is like a cancer eating
>away at everything one loves. When I got Shakti-Pat, I thought my life
>would become more eniched. It's only harder and I'm only more depressed.
>Sometimes, I wish I were dead.
-
Sorry Mark I have to laugh again, it's not you, honest. It's just the parallels.

You don't know how many times I thought the exact same things as you do, and
believe it or not, even now am just about to come off the tail end of those
thoughts. Wanting to leave earth, heck, destroy it, the darkness, and all
that. I understand completely.

You've actually made me feel more at ease. There, see, you helped someone.
So, stiff upper lip and all that. 
-
Actually, what you should be doing is focusing on the positive effects. I
know its hard, but you have to try. and you have to know that silver lining
is right around the corner. I promise!!! (or double your money back!) Hey,
what's that you say, you didnt spend any money so my offer is useless? oh
sorry... 

Humor my friend, humor can save you (for some reason I just thought of those
televangelists doing their "healing" thing). sigh... must be lack of sleep.

Anyhow, relax young man, happier days are just ahead... honest.
Dan.
There are always possibilities...



Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Loss

this is an edited version of a message sent privately, but I felt the need
to share this portion with the group. There is also some additive
information that was not in the private message>

I've felt most of what you have, been through the wringer, and so forth. I
know exactly what you're going through.

Remember, keep the meditations SHORT damnit! 30 minutes maximum. Don't go
over that amount of time. That'll cut the aftershocks to negligable levels,
and keep the energy moving at a slower pace. try it! you've got nothing to
lose. it is necessary to keep the meditations going though.

ask for guidance and help each day, even if you only seek out your "gut
instinct" your intuition, or whatever. this can help a lot.

the path of the light is more difficult than the dark yes and strewn with
dangers at every step and things lurking in the shadows. however, there is a
phrase you should know about, it is:

the road of darkness becomes harder and harder to travel upon until it is
impossible to go any further (and usually ends very quickly). the road of
light is eternal.

that's from something called "the RA Material" (now called "the book of
one"). I dont entirely agree with all their beliefs and statements but it is
a good reference none-the-less.

Sources will say whatever suffering you are going through is caused by you.
negativity breeds negativity and all that. And it's true. I used to think it
was funny when people would say I needed to keep a positive attitude, but
its true, especially with k energy, your energy can be light or dark, its
whatever you are at the moment, it follows you and is guided by your self
and moves in the direction you go. Once you get onto a positive cycle,
you'll also notice "coincidence" (good ones) happen more often and
frequently. It is often difficult to stay in the positive cycle for a long
period of time though, at least for me.
 
yes the two things you need now are faith and hope. in your self. only you
can provide that for yourself. the answers you seek and the enlightenment
are all within you, awaiting your arrival. the light is "just around the
corner" waiting for you as well, hoping you'll notice it. look for the faint
glimmer of light, it's there somewhere.

as a final statement, I'll pass on that I recall from some place a long time
ago, maybe a year or so, that there was once someone going through k and
nearly died from it (I can't remember the exact details so this is bound to
be full of errors), but from what I recall they nearly died several times,
and apparantly visited a lama or yogic master (something along those lines),
who was actually able to "heal" the process, I dont recall if they stopped
it exactly (I don't think such is possible), but they were able to help in
this matter. of course, this is far more severe than what you or I are going
through, and likely such a spiritual person would reassure you that what
you're going through is quite normal, ok, and you'll get through it. (Dr.
Kason tells me this all the time) 

so, relax, enjoy. 
Dan.
There are always possibilities...


-
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 
From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: "K" and emotions etc

Mark:

The saying "this too will pass" always helps me when I'm in a tough spot.

I didn't force "K" in any way, it just happened to me, but I go through some
of the emotional phases you mention.  Some of them are shedding of old
traumas from my sheaths that have accumulated over this and past lives.
 Others are collective traumas of humanity as a whole.  How do I know this.
 I ask!

At every turn when I feel a mood of some kind coming on that is unusual for
me, I simply ask for guidance and an explanation.  My Higher Self immediately
comes through with an answer.  It'soften nothing to do with my present life,
and because it's old stuff, or collective stuff, when I understand, I am able
to detach from it and get on with the present. Emotions are  just emotions,
they do not reflect the "real" you.

I find that long meditations are very difficult, they send me out of my body,
and are generally uncomfortable.  But they aren't necessary because "K'
itself gives you an instant connection to your Higher Self.  At least that is
my experience.  You only have to trust it is there, ask, and whatever the
first answer you get, no matter how absurd it seems run with it.  It's when
we question what ever comes into mind first that our egos get in the way, and
then we lose the connection.  So ask, listen, and go with whatever
explanation comes up.  You will find there is an order to this, and "K"
really know what she is doing.

Love Jule



Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: "K" and emotions etc

Julie:

I will read your note again, but I see your point. With me, the hardest
thing is either finding the inner voice or not second guessing myself. I
appreciate your note. Thank you.



Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Re: Loss

Mark,

I was very touched by your letter.  Your thoughts were like a mirror on my
not too distant past.  I had no idea what was happening to me for a while
when K started rising.  Once I could put a word to it however, I asked/told
God, and Jesus and any other light being I could think of, that the symptoms
needed to be milder, more toned down. I gave permission (I believe my free
will cannot be violated) if and only if the symptoms, discomforts etc. could
be more bearable.  To this day I am not sure I did the right thing, but it
did work and I have been able to keep living in the world. Feel free to try
this approach yourself.

(Not only do I believe you can drop a guru and work with God alone, I
believe you MUST do this.)

A few months after that (there were only 3 or so days during which I thought
I would rather die - the dreaded itch symptom) I started ,
my ego, my personality,etc. I just started falling apart.  I was driving my
car at the time and just had to let go of who I thought I was - on every
level. It was really upsetting but I had no choice it seemed and I could not
believe I was trying to drive while this was happening.  The phrase
"shamanic dismemberment" came to me and it seemed to close the experience in
a safe and gentle way. Later I was grateful I did not have lots of time and
to explore what was happening.  The Milder K perhaps was still working.

I hope this is helpful and I hope you feel better.

Mary  
-



At 10:22 PM 9/1/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I used to think K was good. Deep down, I still do, but it's hard. Lonely.
>If I knew it was goingbto be like this, I think I would have reconsidered.
>Once on K is awakened from a Guru and a person is no longer happy, can
>that person renounce their intiation and go back to how the person was
>before the K awakening experience. Or must the person seek another Guru or
>go to church or something. I used to think K would enrich my life, now I
>leave a warning to all who have never been initiated. Make sure it is what
>you want and you're ready! Don't just jump into it like me. There's
>consequences to every action. It's not for everybody. This warning is not
>meant to put fear, but only to tell those to follow their heart, not their
>ego. That's what I did, and it seems I'm being widdled away emotionally,
>piece by piece and it's not fun. In hind sight, I think a Guru can be a
>great help, but an aquaintance on this list once told me we are our own
>guru's. Therfore we are responsible for what happens, give or take a few
>things, and can choose to act or react or do nothing at all. He is wiser
>and older than I, but the root of the truth is that sometimes, I feel like
>I sold my soul or something because since Shakti-Pat my life hasn't been
>easier, it's been more frustrating and in some ways harder. Perhaps that
>is the way it's supposed to be. I don't know. I'm just a guy who jumped
>into the pool without checking how deep it was. It's my responsibility,
>but I ask those who may be wiser or more experienced than I to answer my
>mail and tell me. Is my emotional state and the events around me the
>normal course of my life or can I change things. And can I change guru's?
>Can I trust god above as my guru instead of a person or group? Can I
>renounce my Shakti-Pat intiation and move on? Those who may know me now I
>am erratic and theatrical, but these are sincere questions. Someone please
>answer me.
>
>Thank you all for your time and consideration.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Mark Rivera
>
>
->
>



Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: Loss

Thank you.
-


Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: Loss, ....oooh SHIT!, what has I got into!?..

Thank you. I'll try to remember and keep that in mind.


-
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Loss, ....oooh SHIT!, what has I got into!?..

Mark,
When your are wishing you are dead it is a pretty acurate thought since what
you are working at is killing off the ego/self. If there is no ego/self,
there is nothing to react with. So, indeed you wish that was gone. It does
make life  more natural, and easy to move with whatever is coming down
because there is only one thing inside not two. Duality is conflict. Unity is
bless. Gloria