Date: Thu, 15 Aug kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 93 

From: Wendy 
Subject: Teenagers continuing

Hi Everyone,

In reply to Jule:

>Hi everyone:
>
>Wendy how about simply workers instead of warriors.  I think women
>particularly think of killing when they think of warriors and so miss the
>point of the other part of that role.  We are all workers in thespirit,
>whether we are nurturing, or battling evil or whatever.  Rather like worker
>bees in a hive, we work together as a group to accomplish the same overall
>purpose.

Yes,  Jule. The "point" wasn't missed....and I'm glad mine wasn't either.  I
have a beautiful piece about Warriors, and every time I read it, despite the
beauty within it, that negative connotation/semantic thing just keeps
getting in the way for me.  It definitely is a gender thing.  But I consider
my sensitivities to that to be important ones, as well.

>On teenagers: 
>
>I've just graduated from 3 of them thank God!  There were times when I
>thought it would never end.  It does occur to me that we need a
>personality/ego before we can go behind to the real self.  It is a persona we
>need to wear to survive in the world, until we can find out who we truly are.
> That is what the teenage years are about.

Yes, I feel the same way.  Amazing that one spends considerable energy
growing up developing, perfecting, becoming comfortable with one's
'ego'/personality only to learn how important and necessary it is to
transend it later on.  Much could be 

>How did I survive, Love,tolerance patience, humor and more love etc.

>I would frequently say I love you to them, even though they'd say Yeh I know
>ma, very disparagingly and go about their business.  But you would see the
>back staighten a bit every time. They need to know we are on their side.

Yes....fortunately with my first teenager he accepts Love easily.  The back
straightens and the eyes soften.   This, to me, is a gift.  I think we
all can't hear those words enough in our lives.  I wonder now why so many in
the past found it so difficult to say them.

>I always discussed spirituality with them, took them to different groups over
>the years.  They ended up with a kind of smorgasbord.  Every problem that
>came up I discussed in terms of how to solve it on a spiritual level. I'ts
>important because they don't get any of this outside often. But most of all I
>was a sounding board who tried to stay as non-judgemental as possible,
>despite being their mother.

Jule, how fortunate for you that you had this awareness as they were growing
up!!!  What lucky kids!  I had most of the "pieces" but the framework of
spirituality (not sure that's the right way of saying what I mean, but I'll
leave it be) wasn't fully formed in my own mind until the K stuff about 4
years ago.  It's wonderful to watch them kind of glom it all up and absorb
it,  You can see it stretches them when talking about it.  In a really nice
and genuine way, too.  I think that might even be partly because they don't
get it anywhere else.  And partly because they see the importance of it to
us as reflected in how we talk about for what it gives us.  My teenager has
always been borderline irrational 'against' any form of organized religion.
Funny, cause I was raised Unitarian, but chose not to have my children join
any formal religious affiliation when younger.  Butm he not only grasps but
seems comfortable with the spiritual approach and perspective to Life and
the big U.  After all, it certainly satisfied the 'logical' when one is 15
and seeking answers to very metaphysical thoughts.  In fact, the timing
probably couldn't be better for having this kind of dialogue with our
kids....no?

>Recently theyv'e told me they were glad they were brought up to think for
>themselves because it's a very good foundation for life.  They also aren't
>afraid to explore their own religious beliefs.  In the past we were expected
>to believe what society believed about everything, religion, customs,
>politics etc. It was shocking to be different. Hopfully this is all changing
>for the better.

Hallelujah, pass the wine. 

>The ego:
>
>I agree that the ego is put upon us by other people.  Don't do that, think
>this etc.  It's social and parental conditioning that forms it.  A young
>child has no ego, it just is.  this is why spiritually speaking, the aim is
>to become a child again.  We need to get back to who we were before the
>conditioning took hold.

Yes.  Intersesting that the child's lack of developed ego also seems to
include the need/necessity to strike out at all hypocrisy directly.  No
sliding in the side door, meekly.  How often as adults do we relate to
wishing we could through a temper tantrum when confronted with some of
life's horrors and disparities.  Watching teenagers struggle with it is such
a poignant reminder to adults at just how much we've buried in order to
survive/function.  Rather than challenging us as 'authority' they're really
challenging us to remember the Idealism we once had almost effortlessly.
The k, of course, gives us that glorious "childhood" back in an enlightened
form.  Phew.  Amazing 

>One of the ways I work on this is to watch my thoughts yes,.  but in a
>particular way.  when I hear myself saying you OUGHT to do this or you SHOULD
>do that I go whoo.  
>those 2 words are the sign to me that this thinking is not mine it comes from
>conditioning form wherever, and I have to look at it closely.

shoulda woulda coulda........the only words I'd vote to be censored from
Webster's 

>Doing this over the years has made me slowly realise who I am, I'm still at
>it of course, but it has helped me strip away a lot of conditioning.  Before
>I did this I didn't like myself very much.  That was because I was being
>someone else, a product of the conditioning.  As I have worked this way, I've
>been able to be more my true self, whatever that is, and i like it much more.
> Why?  Because it may not be anything special but it is genuine..

"Special" doesn't begin to evoke the incredible Beauty relfected off a
genuine (I say that like I'm southern, which I'm not...gen u WHINNNNNNE)
Soul. 

>Love to all Jule
>

Love in return,
Wend

Leap and the net will appear.
http://www.tiac.net/users/wenders
___________________

  Don't take advice, take a chance, roll the dice, learn to dance.
	                 - David Wilcox
___________________


 
Date: Thu, 15 Aug
From: ijuster <>
Subject: Re: children

>Is This a Spiritual Line or a Sex advertising via???
>I can't believe that people who want to find out about kundalini awakening
post 
>things about having sex with children....Why don't the perverted people go
to a 
>porno mailing group and enjoy your aberrations...????
>Whoever sends these messages probably don't have Kundalini awakening, that
is a 
>spiritual force that converts the awakened ones into more ethical, loving,
pure 
>people.....
>Hey really....what's going on?????????

This is an open, public forum on the discussion of kundalini.

Kundalini may influence us spiritually, phsyically, emotionally, mentally,
and many other ways. All areas are therefore legitimate topics of discussion.

Your post left me with some questions that I believe could use some
clarification:

What post are you referring to? Is it any more risque than something any
child can read about in the newspaper, at a magazine stand, watch on a
movie, and/or hear other children and adults talk about?

Are you the new ethical monitor of the group? 

Your point about being more loving seems obscured when you call other people
perverts. I don't feel that anyone has written in that has had any intention
other than to share from his or her heart about his or her experience. How
loving are you of people who are different from you in any way?

What is your definition of ethical? Must we all follow it?

Do you believe in censorship? Does it bother you that Hitler became so
powerful by seizing control of all the media and censoring all but his
message? It was not free speech that led to Hitler, it was the suppression
of free speech. And the judgement that all who were not like him were
inferiors and  perverts.

(By the way, he did not just go out and kill Jews. He attacked many groups--
religious, ethnic, and social--until there were not enough people left to
stop him. Had people stopped him sooner, there would not have been the
ability for him to go as far as he did.)

Do you think we should teach people to hate in the name of love?

Have you been listening to people discuss how the kundalini is about getting
us to drop our judgements and see the light in others? 

Do you think we are all perverts, because we haven't stopped this alleged
violation, or just some of us? Upon what do you make your judgement?

How long should everyone's rights be threatened by this thing about
"children's rights" on the net? Sould intelliegent, growth and
learning-oriented adults be forced to communicate at the level of Sautrday
morning cartoons to protect children? Do you have Net Nanny? It costs $19.95
(though there are free ones too)? This would allow you to screen for
messages you do not wish to hear. Do you think you might want to use Net
Nanny before reading this list?

Could you hit the trash key when you saw an offensive message? Could it be
that beneath your surface outrage, you are interested?

Do you think that you will only grow by hearing what you want to hear? Could
there be any value in viewpoints of others that do not agree with you?

Do you think other people have feelings? How safe will this list be if
judgemental people come on and insult others who only shared from their
hearts and meant well? 

Do you believe in courtesy & kindness? Do you think that there are ways to
express your opinion legitimately and non-judgmentally that leave the lines
of communication open, and that leave the recipient glad to have heard from you?

What do you have to say that would be a positive contribution to the group?
I would be far more interested in hearing that.

Nameste (the spirit in me says hi! to the spirit in you) in a place of love
and friendship.

Love, Patti


Date: 15 Aug 
From: DOROTHY BATES <>
Subject: Re: Fwd: kundalini awakening

To Jean: This is in response to your message about your 3-year experience with
Kundalini.  I have had three intense and lengthy experiences and know a number
of people who have experienced the same.  there are several extremely helpful
sources for help.  One is the Spiritual Emergence Network in California. One
is the Shared Transformation Newsletter and Website.  Spiritual Emergence
Network can put you in touch with people in Your town or nearby who have had
similar experiences and who are available by phone. Shared Transformation is
a newsletter just for people with extreme experiences and they also have
people who are confidantes, who exchange letters or phone calls.  There is
also some help from certain types of bodywork, massage, acupuncture, etc. There'
are also a few sanctuaries in California and one in Massachusetts. Also a few
books which are helpful. 
If you want addresses/phone numbers for any of these, please respond and
I will send.  Dorothy 


Date: Thu, 15 Aug 
From: Jeff Anderson <>
Subject: Can anyone help please?

I have become involved in a situation of dire consequences. A very close 
lady friend, unaware of any powers that exist, is being ferociously 
abused telepathicly by her husband.

I am desperately seeking any information that could help me learn to 
help her and her child. Her mind is not yet open to he possibilities of 
telepathy. She just knows that he makes her crazy and has begun to 
experience horrific dreams that he is imposing upon her. Her child is 
also experiencing this...I am just becoming aware of my abilities in 
this area and need the guidance of someone more experieinced. I would 
prefer to learn at the pace granted by life, but he damage being done is 
too great, and I am compelled to accelerate my learnings in order to 
protect her and her child. He has also invaded others, and I feel he 
must be stopped, and I am the only one who knows what he is doing.

I truly hope that this message strikes a chord with someone who can help 
me. Please direct response to me at ay684ATNOSPAMtorfree.net, as I have not yet 
subscribed to this group.

Please help if you can!


Date: Thu, 15 Aug
From: jmckinnonATNOSPAMcc.weber.edu
Subject: Re: Another Analogy

> 
> Words are so often inadequate...... "warrior" is one of those words that,
> for me, has too many mixed messages from the past to allow the intent of
> your quote to rise above them, clearly and 'cleanly', unfortunately.
> 
> One more hill to climb, breaking the language barriers...
> 
> I'm trying to think of other words that might be more all encompassing that
> embody the underlying intent of the word "warrior".... 
> 
> One that doesn't conjure images of 'us' vs 'them', 'me' vs 'myself', war,
> battle, fatigue, false armor, super'human' effort, struggle, etc etc.
> 
> Anyone?
> 
> Wendy
> 

Very good point.

How about:

"One first begins to understand being a father, when one is no longer
concerned with being a 'father' ".

Mac (JohnMcK)


Date: Thu, 15 Aug
From: jmckinnonATNOSPAMcc.weber.edu
Subject: Re: Another Analogy

> 
> How about Journeyman, Explorer, Adventurerer, or Traveler?
> 
> Blessed Be
> 
> Debee
> 

I think it requires a role, label, model etc.. that would be near and 
dear to a person's heart.  A role or label or something that they would 
*really* attach themselves to.

"one begins to understand what it means to be a budha, when one no longer 
concernes his self with being a budha"

I think its a real dilema.  (wish I could spell) 

Mac (JohnMcK)


btw

I strongly agree with the way John H. defines a warrior.

Could we be speaking of warriors in different lights, or contexts?


Date: Thu, 15 Aug
From: Mary Knapp <>
Subject: Re: Can anyone help please?

I too know someone I believe is enduring something like this woman and her
child. I have prayed about it but would also like advice.  Please pass
anything of that nature on to me also.  Thank you

At 01:32 PM 8/15/96 -0400, Jeff Anderson wrote:
>I have become involved in a situation of dire consequences. A very close 
>lady friend, unaware of any powers that exist, is being ferociously 
>abused telepathicly by her husband.
>
>I am desperately seeking any information that could help me learn to 
>help her and her child. Her mind is not yet open to he possibilities of 
>telepathy. She just knows that he makes her crazy and has begun to 
>experience horrific dreams that he is imposing upon her. Her child is 
>also experiencing this...I am just becoming aware of my abilities in 
>this area and need the guidance of someone more experieinced. I would 
>prefer to learn at the pace granted by life, but he damage being done is 
>too great, and I am compelled to accelerate my learnings in order to 
>protect her and her child. He has also invaded others, and I feel he 
>must be stopped, and I am the only one who knows what he is doing.
>
>I truly hope that this message strikes a chord with someone who can help 
>me. Please direct response to me at ay684ATNOSPAMtorfree.net, as I have not yet 
>subscribed to this group.
>
>Please help if you can!
>
>

 
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Can anyone help please?

Hi: Jeff Anderson

You said:
>I have become involved in a situation of dire consequences. A very close 
lady friend, unaware of any powers that exist, is being ferociously 
abused telepathicly by her husband.<

There are man made evil forces out there.  They don't really exist, but are
created by man and in that sense they are real. I am sure many other people
can help, so stay tunned   I wanted to respond to your letter right a way.

Evil forces can not touch the light.  These are only shadows and so the
person involved must connect up with the light or God, Etc   The forces work
best on a weak mind.  Don't wait to long.  There is no evil force in this
universe that can penetrate the shield of light and in fact the negative
force will be returned to the sender three fold.  It's not difficult to
counter the force and send it back. 

The reason that I did not write more is because I am sure some will else will
add to this.

So have her connect up with the light, now!

As always,
Von 


Date: Thu, 15 Aug 
From: Wendy <>
Subject: Fellow Argonauts

Thanks Mac and others ... since words are the medium for our 'messages'
here, I'm afraid getting bogged down in them is inevitable, at times, for
clarity's sake.  

I'm surprised the word angel didn't pop up 

Hey, how about this one:

>"One first begins to understand being an argonaut, when one is no longer
>concerned with being an 'argonaut' ".

LOL

Sometimes, because I now spout off about all kinds of things that most of my
friends never give alot of thought to - or have even heard of (e.g. k!) when
they tease me about it, I tell them I'm majoring in argonometry.  Some
actually believe it's a whole new science. 

Wendy


>Date: Thu, 15 Aug 
>From: jmckinnonATNOSPAMcc.weber.edu
Subject: Attacks

Dear Mary and Jeff,

Perhaps by having the persons in question surround themselves (in and out) 
with Divine Light and have them call upon their Spirit Guides and Guardian 
Angles to assist them with this situation. They are there for us; all we 
need to do is ask.

"If you desire the fire to go out...don't add anymore fuel."
AMPB

Namaste'...Arlene
As above so below*


Date: Thu, 15 Aug
From: Mary Knapp <>
Subject: Re: Can anyone help please?

At 02:12 PM 8/15/96 -0400, V487ATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:

>
>So have her connect up with the light, now!
>
>As always,
>Von 

What about the young child?  

Also, since the woman is a skeptic it could take years to convince her and
show her how to "connect up with the light".  What do you recommend in the
mean time?

Mary>


Date: Thu, 15 Aug
From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Attacks

I agree with this suggestion. It worked for me when I had problems with 
entities. It takes time and effort to build a shield, but it's worth the work 
you put into it. Evil can't touch the Light.


>Dear Mary and Jeff,
>
>Perhaps by having the persons in question surround themselves (in and out) 
>with Divine Light and have them call upon their Spirit Guides and Guardian 
>Angles to assist them with this situation. They are there for us; all we 
>need to do is ask.
>
>"If you desire the fire to go out...don't add anymore fuel."
>AMPB
>
>Namaste'...Arlene
>As above so below*
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com


Date: Thu, 15 Aug 
From: Wendy <>
Subject: Re: Can anyone help please?

Dear Jeff and Mary,

I recently had a close friend who was involved in a situation similar to
what you're describing here, Jeff and Mary.  My friend is such a trusted,
trusting, gentle, Loving Soul.  He is someone I am constantly in awe of in
his ability to act only with and from Love.  After learning of what was
going on around his friend/neighbor coming 'through' her husband, he
explained to her directly and very carefully what he, I and others were
'seeing' and perceiving about the situation.  

I had picked up some very strong vibes about this situation (with no
knowledge of it from him previously) one night while we were talking and his
neighbor's name came up in our conversation.  I immediately saw an image of
a man's eyes very cleary and saw, in that image, what was going on there.
Once I explained to him as best I could what it was about - FROM MY
PERCEPTIONS - he was able to use that information to determine exactly what
was going on and follow up from there before speaking to her about it.  He
then also discussed all with a mutual friend and neighbor of theirs who
knows them personally, too...she is also a card reader.  

My friend has continued to be "there" offering his support to this woman
and her children, even though he has sinced moved to another state.  Shortly
thereafter, she sought help....and they briefly tried counseling but she
felt that, under the circumstances, the best choice at this point in time
for her children and herself was to leave.  I suspect that is happening at
this moment, if it hasn't already.  Of course, she has compassion and Love
for her husband.  And is slightly confused by what's going on.

Perhaps there are more direct approaches one can take/use in these
situations....and I hope you get some *solid* advice from others here, Jeff
and Mary, that will help out.  There is such a fine line determining 'right'
and 'wrong' (not really sure those even apply) and the way that this
information was "shown" to me was that this man was being 'used' by external
sources/entities - negative conduit - and consciously unaware of it in any
way.  As others who knew the man sensed the same feelings, perhaps in
different ways, this woman was able to get the support and validation she
needed to take action on her own.

Telepathic 'invasions' are not uncommon, I have since learned.  I haven't
known of experiences where that has translated into physical violence or
abuse...not to say that it couldn't.  Interesting to wonder if this isn't an
early precursor though, to that potential abuse?  I also personally believe
one need only ask for a bubble of protection and no harm will come.
Previous to having any experience with this level of negativity, I *assumed*
the bubble - for me at least - was and always had been "in place."  Live n
learn.

If the person wishing to help the woman has any "over"protective feelings
and / or romantic feelings or involvement with the woman, this, of course,
will cloud over the ability to really 'see' into the situation.  You are
wise to ask for guidance from others for yourself, as well as for your
friend and her children, if that applies.

I, for one, will be sending protective, healthy thoughts to you and all
concerned.  Let us know how things are going with all of you please Jeff and
Mary.

As an adjunct to this, a little bell keeps ringing in one ear here....and
that little bell is a reminder to me of being conscious of that detachment
stuff regarding moving too deeply into the area of working with others in
'solving' problems, healing, etc.  I'm still very much at the baseline
myself with my own growth and know that that is where my own focus needs to
remain, at the present time.  In the past, anyone with the word 'need'
painted across their forehead to me would be reason enough to drop whatever
I was doing in my own life the 'help.'  Compassion, too, has its own
duality, yes?

In love,

Wendy

>>I have become involved in a situation of dire consequences. A very close 
>>lady friend, unaware of any powers that exist, is being ferociously 
>>abused telepathicly by her husband.
>>
>>I am desperately seeking any information that could help me learn to 
>>help her and her child. Her mind is not yet open to he possibilities of 
>>telepathy. She just knows that he makes her crazy and has begun to 
>>experience horrific dreams that he is imposing upon her. Her child is 
>>also experiencing this...I am just becoming aware of my abilities in 
>>this area and need the guidance of someone more experieinced. I would 
>>prefer to learn at the pace granted by life, but he damage being done is 
>>too great, and I am compelled to accelerate my learnings in order to 
>>protect her and her child. He has also invaded others, and I feel he 
>>must be stopped, and I am the only one who knows what he is doing.
>>
>>I truly hope that this message strikes a chord with someone who can help 
>>me. Please direct response to me at ay684ATNOSPAMtorfree.net, as I have not yet 
>>subscribed to this group.
>>
>>Please help if you can!
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Leap and the net will appear.
http://www.tiac.net/users/wenders
___________________

  Don't take advice, take a chance, roll the dice, learn to dance.
	                 - David Wilcox
___________________