Date: Fri, 2 Aug kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 76 
1996 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Women, sex and the big bang

Jule said: 

> Tej:

Loved your comment on the big bang.  I think if God and the big bang are
related, then God is definetly getting some kick.  But what if the big bang
is also part of the illusion.  where does that leave us?

"Subj:	Women, sex and the big bang"
Should it not be: Men & Women, sex and the big bang" 

So is God a Man?      

 .>We are just as worthy as men and are trying to find that sense again.  
Because sex was the means of making us feel unworthy, this is why we are so
against sexual exploitation. 

Yes that is true, but don't you think that on the other side of the coin
women use sex as a means to exploit men to get what they want from them?
 Don't you  think that is the main objective for women to ware high heel
shoes, lip stick, Etc.  You know high heels do a lot of  harm to the foot
became it is not natural.  When some one goes fishing he shakes a worm at the
fish as bat to attract the fishes attention.  Does not the woman do the same
thing every day to get the mans attention?

Also I think that if the man was not so un-aware then the woman could not do
this to him in the first place.  It's all natures play to keep the human race
going.    The man leaves himself open for it.  If I were a woman, maybe I
would do the same thing as it is easy money.  

Every day in this working life we both have to compete between the woman and
the man.  Mainly in something like marketing or sales, Etc.  Then after work
the man stops by the local bar.  The same women that he competed with all day
long are now in different costumes taking back the money that he fought for
all day. 

This is written in good humor so don't get offended.!!  
 

>As we proceed with evolution, we will be getting in touch with our souls
more.  since the soul is feminine, we all need to learn to value the feminine
as being a force with equal value with the masculine.

Yes that is the how it should be dealt with. 

Love,
Von


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 
From: ijuster 
Subject: Re: Women, sex and the big bang

I don't like pornograhpy at all. In fact, it drives me into a rage at times.
I can get violently upset when I see men's or women's body parts displayed
in a de-humanizing fashion, for I see the perpetuation of the myth that
people are just body parts, etc.  

This is part of the greater myth that says that spirit is "higher" and
"cleaner" than body. Men and women are taught to deplore their bodies, as
well as to disrespect or look condescedingly upon nature and all things
physical, as a requirement for accessing the divine.

Back to pornography: it is a fine line, for a beautiful piece of erotic art
that celebrates our beauty as humans can fill me with great joy.
Michelangelo's David, the Venus of Botticelli, the Venus de Milo, even
contemporary erotic art, done tastefully, elevates my soul. To me, Playboy
is dehumanizing, albeit mildly. 

It is not the sex that bothers me about pornography. It is the de-humanizing
of people, of  men and women.  (yes there are more dehumanizing images of
women, but there are some of men too.) And of course, all of us, men and
women, can become victims of this body as not sacred, body as unclean,
body-as-parts, not whole beings,  mindset if we are not careful. 

Instead of condemning Playboy, why don't we put more real people in there,
with real bodies, real lives, beauty for who they are, not airbrushed and
plastic, but real, real, real. Show the poetry and beauty, the soul and
spirit and magic, of who we are, on this plane.

IMHO, men and women have contributed to the chauvinistic mindset that women
are unclean. It is not men *against* women. And just banning pornography
will not be nearly as effective as creating new, positive, sacred paradigms
of the body. To just ban it is to agree with chauvinists, yes, sex is diry,
so we better not let the truth out!

PS There is a fair amount of literature on how women's magazines are also
de-humanizing, too. Teenagers go anorexic trying to look like models, and
men leave women who do not look like they are magazine-level attractive.
Women's self esteem suffers greatly. Again, how about having real people in
there?

................................... 
>
>As we proceed with evolution, we will be getting in touch with our souls
>more.  since the soul is feminine, we all need to learn to value the feminine
>as being a force with equal value with the masculine.
>
I agree that a balance between masculine and feminine energies is essential
for our evolution and our maximum happiness. I think it is the source of
creativity as well as procreativity.

I have never heard that a soul is feminine. From where is this belief drawn?
I have always felt that my soul, and my spirit, are just that, and beyond
gender.


Love, Patti



>


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 
From: georgevATNOSPAMeor.com (georgev)
Subject: Judgment

Judgment it is funny thing and that is a judgment that it is funny. I
was troubled because I couldn't become enlightened and then it donned
on me, a Koan: Even the attachment to enlightenment is to go astray. I
notice that the last time that I was enlightened was when that little
voice inside said, "If you want to let go of your suffering let go of
your need to judge anything that is." I notice that I have judged too
much because I have noticed that I get a total thought block because of
my own critic, "I cannot do  this or that."

In yesterdays meditation the little insight was, " even your fears,
worries, and/or everything you think is is your own self criticizing
yourself." "If you want to stop suffering then stop judgment of
anything and just notice your thoughts." "Thoughts are like a river
flowing because they are flowing and sooner or later that thought will
turn into a new one or go away totally."

Re: Sex and K
This is a case of both misinformation, and possibly bad writing. My
little voice told me so. The stuff about pornography was that since the
 idea of noticing ideas come and go. Not being attached to them and
just noticing them as they flow. The idea was to notice something
sexual in ones mind and note it as the Buddhists state, "note it,
thinking aroused then back to noticing the thought or the breath."

I knew that I would get it when I stated men, women, and children in
the same sentence. I personally have no interest in child pornography
or forcing children. I nanny and I just let the children do what they
will as long as they don't cause to much suffering to each other. I
have notice that I need to notice children and not to fly off the
handle with a child that is just like what many people have stated
about forced sex and other kinds of abuse. I am interested in well
adjusted kids its just creating then so that they are well adjusted.

It seems to be a judgment thing. If we notice all that is. Suffering
and peace. Creating peace and ending suffering.

I have noticed too the argument about erotica and pornography and the
paradox of what is good or bad. Nether is all it is is. I noticed this
that the labels that we place on one another where created from a
thought to harm another and also make them suffer. I notice how this is
in the pornographic industry where people get all kinds of labels. I
have photographed a few women who work in the erotica industry and they
state that much of the suffering is caused by a judgment of degradation.

My interest is to attempt to create images as they are. Noticing how
people are in all of what their thoughts about them are. Just being the
neutral photographer photographing or doing what ever the client wants
except if it makes others suffer and only unless they agree to suffer
as it is their way to. 

This is like the Zen or S&M.  Why would anyone in their right mind go
though suffering? It is to notice that we do cause our own inner S&M
with our judgments? Is it just to see how long we can become neutral as
someone else is judging us and hurting us. We are the ones who have the
option to say ether suffering or peace. Can we push though the need to
be in suffering? We note as the whip lashes our backs, Oh, suffering.
Many of the suffering is just words that are statements bent on the
intent of creating suffering but if we notice that that is what they
are then we notice that. We notice that we have a choice either to
suffer or to notice it. The longer one notices it the longer one can
create peace by not acting to suffer with it. Then the one who thought
they had power is powerless.

First notice the situation, evaluate it, plan a course of action, and
then act on it.

Anything is possible without judgment.

George


>>The letter that started it all>>
>From: georgevATNOSPAMeor.com (georgev)
>
>I have found some help in disapline and also creating subtal bodies
>that I can expeiment with things that might not be proper for this or
>that. I work my kundalini awakenings into my photography and graphic
>designs. With a hightened awareness one can convert or sample a energy
>expression without becoming overburdened by it. 
>
>I seem to have a six sense that tells me that I have to do my own
>things. As Tej Kohli "I have spent about a decade with world known
>kundalini and 'spiritual'
>masters." This is the same thing that the buddha stated or close to it.
>I have also done this but my six sense tells me that going the route of
>the socalled 'spirirual' masters can only give you a limited area of
>infomation. This is one of the big problems when people blindly follow
>only one way insted of creating their own way.
>
>My way is very sexual in a mental action refining way. I use different
>energys to create effects to a given thing. I have learned that the
>biggest problem with sexual things is that people are always lusting
>after this and that. One insight just yesterday gave me this idea. Why
>don't you love after this and that. I am into testing my actions in my
>meditations before doing them. This refined way of doing things is how
>I do things. More refined, the more easer, the more benifical for
>everyone.
>
>I work and create work that requires pre-testing of an idea. It also
>might be becasue I am apted to go with my emotions. This means that I
>have to learn how to use what comes to me to use.
>
>My photography is in the areas of stri8t gay, lesbian, erotica. Hard
>and softcore. Fashion and portraiture. Men, women, and children.
>Doing things that are law full is the nature of right action if one can
>develop their action effectively and effecantly then it saves having to
>do it again and again.
>
>george


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 
From: Wendy <>
Subject: Judgment

>
>Judgment it is funny thing and that is a judgment that it is funny. I
>was troubled because I couldn't become enlightened and then it donned
>on me, a Koan: Even the attachment to enlightenment is to go astray. I
>notice that the last time that I was enlightened was when that little
>voice inside said, "If you want to let go of your suffering let go of
>your need to judge anything that is." I notice that I have judged too
>much because I have noticed that I get a total thought block because of
>my own critic, "I cannot do  this or that."
>
>In yesterdays meditation the little insight was, " even your fears,
>worries, and/or everything you think is is your own self criticizing
>yourself." "If you want to stop suffering then stop judgment of
>anything and just notice your thoughts." "Thoughts are like a river
>flowing because they are flowing and sooner or later that thought will
>turn into a new one or go away totally."
>
>Re: Sex and K
>This is a case of both misinformation, and possibly bad writing. My
>little voice told me so. The stuff about pornography was that since the
> idea of noticing ideas come and go. Not being attached to them and
>just noticing them as they flow. The idea was to notice something
>sexual in ones mind and note it as the Buddhists state, "note it,
>thinking aroused then back to noticing the thought or the breath."
>
>I knew that I would get it when I stated men, women, and children in
>the same sentence. I personally have no interest in child pornography
>or forcing children. I nanny and I just let the children do what they
>will as long as they don't cause to much suffering to each other. I
>have notice that I need to notice children and not to fly off the
>handle with a child that is just like what many people have stated
>about forced sex and other kinds of abuse. I am interested in well
>adjusted kids its just creating then so that they are well adjusted.
>
>It seems to be a judgment thing. If we notice all that is. Suffering
>and peace. Creating peace and ending suffering.
>
>I have noticed too the argument about erotica and pornography and the
>paradox of what is good or bad. Nether is all it is is. I noticed this
>that the labels that we place on one another where created from a
>thought to harm another and also make them suffer. I notice how this is
>in the pornographic industry where people get all kinds of labels. I
>have photographed a few women who work in the erotica industry and they
>state that much of the suffering is caused by a judgment of degradation.
>
>My interest is to attempt to create images as they are. Noticing how
>people are in all of what their thoughts about them are. Just being the
>neutral photographer photographing or doing what ever the client wants
>except if it makes others suffer and only unless they agree to suffer
>as it is their way to. 
>
>This is like the Zen or S&M.  Why would anyone in their right mind go
>though suffering? It is to notice that we do cause our own inner S&M
>with our judgments? Is it just to see how long we can become neutral as
>someone else is judging us and hurting us. We are the ones who have the
>option to say ether suffering or peace. Can we push though the need to
>be in suffering? We note as the whip lashes our backs, Oh, suffering.
>Many of the suffering is just words that are statements bent on the
>intent of creating suffering but if we notice that that is what they
>are then we notice that. We notice that we have a choice either to
>suffer or to notice it. The longer one notices it the longer one can
>create peace by not acting to suffer with it. Then the one who thought
>they had power is powerless.
>
>First notice the situation, evaluate it, plan a course of action, and
>then act on it.
>
>Anything is possible without judgment.
>
>George
>
>


Thank you for this today, George.

I've been lurking here for awhile now and trying to follow along and I kind
of waited and expected that you would eventually express yourself in a way I
myself would 'relate' to on a personal level...and what you wrote today
really struck a chord with me.

I especially love what you said about your meditation regarding judgements
and our thoughts.

Language is as much a barrier as an invitation.

This has helped me personally today

Thank you sincerely,

___________________

  Don't take advice, take a chance, roll the dice, learn to dance.
                 - David Wilcox
___________________

Leap and the net will appear.
http://www.tiac.net/users/wenders


 
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 
From: "Debee L. Thomas" <>
Subject: Re: To Debee and Cynthia

> Debee:  
> I agree that just being there and loving is the best medicine in any
> situation.  That is why when I pray I merely send love and light.  I don't
> attempt to do anything else.
> Love is very powerful, even though it doesn't seem like much to just be there
> for a person.
> 
I agree totally.  I had an experience once which shows this to be so very 
true, for me.  I had a friend who was scheduled to go to court for her 
divorce settlement.  She called to ask me to 'run your energies'.  I 
wasn't feeling well and was unable to go with her.  I did however get 
another mutual friend to give her some support at the court.  My very first 
thought was 'sock it to him' (her husband) in that he didn't pay child 
support or even attempt to help care for his children.  He spent money on 
drugs, and kept quitting jobs when welfare caught up with him.  

I realized this was not the way to handle the situation.  So, when I 
entered into my meditative state, I asked only that the entire truth be 
heard and that the judgment of the court be made according to the truth 
only.  At one point I choked and sobbed aloud.  I knew it wasn't my own 
emotion and that it was that of my dear friend.  I began sending her 
love, peace and comfort.  I later found that at approximately the same 
time I had my experience, she had the same overwhelming emotion bear down 
upon her.  She said her throat got tight and she felt she was going to 
fall apart on the witness stand.  Yet, as fast as this emotion came upon 
her, it left.  It was replaced by a calm she could not describe and yet 
she just knew she would make it through ok.  In the end, justice was 
indeed served and the settlement went in her favor.  I guess this just 
shows that sometimes the best thing we can do is not offer adivce but 
just be loving, supportive, and compassionate.  Our example will speak so 
much louder than our words.

Blessed Be

Debee


Date: Fri, 2 Aug
From: "Debee L. Thomas" <>
Subject: Re: Judgment

> Judgment it is funny thing and that is a judgment that it is funny. I
> was troubled because I couldn't become enlightened and then it donned
> on me, a Koan: Even the attachment to enlightenment is to go astray. I
> notice that the last time that I was enlightened was when that little
> voice inside said, "If you want to let go of your suffering let go of
> your need to judge anything that is." I notice that I have judged too
> much because I have noticed that I get a total thought block because of
> my own critic, "I cannot do  this or that."

Disillusionment with yourself must precede Enlightenment. 
--- Vernon Howard

Before enlightenment
   chopping wood
   carrying water.
After enlightenment
   chopping wood
   carrying water.
--- Zen Proverb

Blessed Be

Debee


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: UFO's

Jule,
Sounds like you would be interested in knowing about Ron Hubbard's belief's
which is the bases of Scientology. Not all forces are of light, that is a
very important statement since in spiritual warfare it is a war between light
and darkness. If anyone is interested in some very unusual and heavy
materials I have access to them. I had many attacks when writing my book Good
and Evil In Our Times. When we talk about the astral, and the masters of this
world, we end up dealing with many entities that are not what they appear.
Gloria


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 
From: Karol Ann Barnett <>
Subject: Re: Firends of OSHO Home Page.

Hi John:

yes, that seems to be the case about dropping the ego and becoming 
enlightened.  

i would differ with you on the meaning of 'now'

from what i have learned in my experience in the Light and from
other sources, all 'times' are simulataneously happening now.  
the only difference is that are focusing on this now as opposed to that 
now, if you get my meaning

while i was in the Light, i was aware of myself in multi-dimensions.
more, i seemed to be receiving information/emotions from all my 
lifetimes, past-present-future-nows.  but i didn't get caught up 
in the emotion like i do here in my limited self.  rather i was 
acknowledging and receiving all the information of experience.

it was a wonder...


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 
From: Karol Ann Barnett <>
Subject: Re: To Debee and Cynthia

Debee, that was a very beautiful post about the power of prayer.

In her book about her NDE, Betty Eadie received a wondrous gift of being 
able to "see" what prayer looks like outside of the physical plane.  She 
said it was like brilliant rainbow colors reaching out from earth (where 
humans were praying) to the higher realms.  She said that if we had been 
able to see the beauty and wonder of our own prayers, we would pray all 
the time.  Thanks for sharing.


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 
From: Karol Ann Barnett <>
Subject: Re: UFO's

On Fri, 2 Aug 1996 GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:

> Jule,
> Sounds like you would be interested in knowing about Ron Hubbard's belief's
> which is the bases of Scientology. Not all forces are of light, that is a
> very important statement since in spiritual warfare it is a war between light
> and darkness. If anyone is interested in some very unusual and heavy
> materials I have access to them. I had many attacks when writing my book Good
> and Evil In Our Times. When we talk about the astral, and the masters of this
> world, we end up dealing with many entities that are not what they appear.
> Gloria
> 
> 
Gloria, Please share more about this post....


Date: Fri, 02 Aug
From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!

My concern comes from several dreams I had about her that were divinatory. I 
just knew things that happened to her although she never shared them with me 
and in those dreams I was made to understand that I was to help her. She had 
dreams in which we were both facing someone powerful and good and there was a 
ray of light between us both tying us to each other.

But the other day I decided to do just that, to let her work her problems 
herself and to just be there. I guess that "emotional" is too strong a term 
to describe what I feel, it's just that I'm weary of certain therapists who 
seem to profit from prolonged therapy. So many quacks out there...

Love to all.



>Perhaps its not your job to change your friend's path.  Perhaps its your 
>experience to experience the struggle  and stress of your friend and to 
>learn to accept her with loving compassion but not become emotional
> involved 
>in her struggles that are provided for her to grow on.
>
>Maybe the purpose here is differnt that you suppose?
>
>Just a thought......
>
>eric
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com


Date: Fri, 02 Aug
From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Deepak Chopra

Thank you for the replies I got on the subject. His books seem to address 
points of interest for people who have K awakening. But the books I have to 
read are piling up already and I don't want to waste the little time I have 
left for "no substance" books (hope I don't sound pompous!). 


>Snowbird wrote:
>
>>I've been aware for some time now of an author named Deepak Chopra. He's 
>>everywhere around us, the papers, the bookstore, etc...
>>
>>Has anyone on this list read his books? If so, what's your evaluation of
> it?
>
>I may be unpopular in this position (I've only caught up to Digest
>#60--whereas you're all reading #74!), but I find Chopra full of hot air,
>and *wonder* how he came to be such a media-sought-out "expert"...?!
>
>When I read: I read to excerpt (into my diary and/or newsletter).  Chopra's
>writings have given me NO "meat" to consider--rather, his airy words remind
>me of a book I tried to read, about Reiki: just plain No Substance (note:
>I'm not saying that the *subject under discussion has no substance,* only
>that the author-in-my-face *doesn't* help me further along on my path).  I
>want concrete terms, not if-only "promises"...
>
>--Pat
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com


Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 
From: Karol Ann Barnett <>
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!

it sounds to me like you are her spirit guide. sometimes it happens that 
a good friend/relative serve on the physical plane.  blessings to you both...


Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Firends of OSHO Home Page.

True the only part of the human that is connected to the past, or projects to
the future is the ego, the soul spirit knows that the only thing that exists
in now. And, the only movement there is beyond time and space is now. If
everyone was only focused simply in this moment things would change because
there is no room for thought, (personal thought) which anchors one to the
solar plexus, and the emotions are out of power to manipulate when one is not
connected to the thoughts coming out of the lower centers. This is a very
good discussion to enter into . Gloria


Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 
From: Cynthia Anderson <>
Subject: Would love to hear more about your musical thing!

Jule,
Appreciate your e-mail& I would like you to xplain in more detail about 
the Lyre, which is next to Pegasus in the zodiac map of the brain. Also 
please tell me more about your own music and you mentioned it occurred, 
pre "K" during some very dark times. Did you actively seek K or did it 
occur as a process on its own? You mentioned the music manifestation 
cleared up when you experienced K. I have been working on the "focus" 
and find that when I concentrate on seeing through the 3rd eye, the 
music becomes less distinct.