Date: Wed, 17 Jul kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 56
[1] From: Graham Dumpleton
Subject: Re: a few pondering questions
Michelle Withers wrote:
> Is this a group which is trying to follow a specific guideline for
> awakening the "kundalini" energy? I had thought that we were trying NOT to
> define it so rigidly, because we are all so different, and have lead such
> different lives (plural), that only WE could possibly know what WE are
> about within.
>
> I haven't read any books on awakening any energies, and yet I have
> accomplished - without knowing - many mysteries which people seem to have
> studied for years to accomplish. I am having a wonderful time with these
> new magical loving angels/energies which are a part of my new reality, I
> just wonder if anyone on this group is interested in these types of
> awakenings/experiences? My experiences don't fit into ANY type of
> teaching/doctrine, and I am sure that someone would denounce them as
> maddness.
>
> In my belief system, we are ALL going to be opening a gateway to heaven
> within ourselves, so we can feel/know just a little bit more of our spirit,
> and maybe we will be able to live together in harmony better - anything
> would be an improvement on the way the world is headed.
You have an understanding which many people do not accept easily. That is,
that there are many paths to God. Too often people will push a particular
doctrine because they believe it is the only correct path. You only need
to look at how splintered the christian faith is, each church with their
particular interpretation of the bible and the teachings of Jesus and
their belief that their interpretation is the only correct interpretation.
Then you have the often vast differences in the doctrines between totally
different faiths. There are things to be learn't from all doctrines and
all spiritual teachings no matter what their source. Some will feel
more comfortable with following a particular faith, others may look into
many and mold a belief system of their own which is a composite of many
ideas. Utlimately though, any spiritual teachings are simply there to
help you along the way. Eventually you will reach a point where you
will simply know God and your actions will be the actions of God. All
scriptures at this point become meaningless as they are no longer
required. Thus, that you may have got there by some completely different
path to most people means nothing, as in the end, what God sees is only
our soul or atma, the essence of what we are.
--
Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au)
[2] From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: To Natha
I know what I experienced. You can study all the great masters in the world-
they only use words to describe an experience that is beyond words.
Obviously you are kowledgeable, but what have you experienced? Even if you
have had the same full blown 'K' rising that I have, involving the same
bodies, you experience is yours and mine is mine.
Please never disparage another's experience, it is insulting, and I believe
one of the first things we must develop is humility. NONE OF US HAVE ALL THE
ANSWERS.
If you had addressed those remarks to anyone else they would have left the
list, and felt tremeduous humiliation.
Fortunately I am made of very tough stuff. 'K' has taken me past the ability
to be offended to a place of peace.
I stated at the beginning that I am very right-brained. You I think came
fron a left brained perspective in your reply to me. That I think is the
problem. A picture is worth a thousand words.
I took no offense, in fact you implied I had childish notions. I take that
as a compliment.
After all, in every tradition, there was a certain element of childish
innocence in every great saint. Not that i am a saint, but maybe I am
farther along that I thought if I manage to maintain childlike thoughts and
humor throughout this process.
To enter the kingdom of heaven you must become as a child.
Thank you for your support out there.
all those who have already commented, I appreciate it.
I must apoloogise for the typos. Last time I tried to correct one my mail
was sent unfinished. I am learning typing, computing, and E-mail all at
once in order to participate in this list, a mean task if ever there was one.
So bear with me. I am a fast study fortunately.
Much love
Jule
[3] From: reikiATNOSPAMbbs.pennet.com
Subject: brief intro and stuff
hi,
i have been a lurker for about a month or so, and would like to
participate now. i am a long term martial artist (17 years) and my
first expereinces with energy began a long time ago. in the chinese
martial arts we can experience and work with chi, which in some ways is
the same a K energy, and in some ways different. my early experiences
with energy were localized in my hands and arms. as time went on, i
began to work seriously with rooting exersizes. when you root, you
basically stand with the legs shoulder width apart, keep the spine
striaght, and sink into the legs with the knees bent and the weight on
the heels. i would do this for an hour at a time, and then do this at
work.
i was doing this regimen in 1989 when i was working as a corrections
officer at Camp Hill prison in Pennsylvania. I worked there for about 3
months, when we had three days of rioting. I was taken hostage during
the riots and subsequently diagnosed with post tramatic stress disorder.
At this time I had no knowledge of Kundalini, or the symptoms. I
believe due to the Chi Kung and rooting that i was doing, and the
expereince at the jail my Kundalini went active. Prior to the expereice
i had experienced several strange things, and after that things really
began to get interesting. I'll save those for another time.
i guess what it comes down to is this list is extremely important for
the exchange of information and love. I know if I had been more
knowledgeable at the time about this expereince I would have had a more
positive expereince.
now, i am a healer with a great sense of purpose and wish to extend love
and light to you all. I'll bore you all some more some other time
in love
john reikiATNOSPAMhhs.net
[4] From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Epilepsy, OBE's
To Lori:
I have had a lot of bizarre allergic reactions to foods,befor,during and
after 'K',
It occurs to me this might be part of your problem, because epilepsy can be
caused by an allergic reaction.
On OBE's
I have had spontaneous OBE's most of my life. The funniest was when I got
married.
I hovered above my body during the entire ceremony, only returning when we
walked down the aisle. I always tease my husband that I did not really marry
him at all.
Seriously though, I leave at any time of great danger, fright, or extreme
fatigue.
Certain sounds jolt me out of my body since "K', and this can be a great
problem.
The books by Robert Monroe, Journeys out of the Body , and others address
this in relation to sound. I agree we tend to go to dfferent places
depending on which chakra we exit out of. I do know of one person near me
who had experienced "K" and went to a discussion group she ran. It was very
difficult to be near her physically, because our combined energy almost
knocked me out of my body. I left because I had to spend too much time just
grounding myself.
Love Jule
[5] From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: To Michelle and the others
Yes Michelle I agree that there are spiritual entities helping us with our
evolution. As far as I can see the whole galaxy might be watching our
progress with great interest.
My own personal opinion is that we did at one time have a great deal of
knowledge but no love and so we destroyed ourselves. I cannot prove this of
course, but it does explain why there is the explosion of kowledge now. We
may be in the process of regaining what we knew. The fall may be a religious
way of explaining how we nearly destroyed ourselves.
So much for my ideas.
I think if there are 4 billion people there are 4 billion paths to the
center. The Eastern traditions have a great deal to offer, but so does every
tradition. It is very noteworthy
that NDE's are always told that all that matters is love and kowledge, not
the tradition or discipline you followed.
Ultimately I think our own higher selves are our best guides. The traditions
are only like maps to help us find our way. The sharing is great, but if any
one of us thinks we have the only way, we are wrong.
Seems to me from your posts that you are doing just fine.
Personally your input has helped me a lot. I too have had all kinds of
encounters,we make what we can of them, they teach us, and then we pass on to
the next lesson. It is all grist ffor the mill.
Love Jule
[6] From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Kundalini and mental illness
When my "K" rose I heard all the voices of the collective unconscious, the
voices of the ancestors if you like. I also saw many thins on other planes
much of which was incomprehensible to me. This was very scarey, but things
eventually calmed down.
'K' is a physical experience and it disrupts the body tremenduously if we
cannot contain it. It is like electricity and electricity run amuk creates
havoc. Read danion Brinkley's account of being struck by lightning and the
years it took him to recover, and you will see what I mean.
The body seems to store the experiences of our ancestors in the DNA-genes and
they surface in 'K'. This enables us to read the collective unconscious, but
if the process is not orderly, we are in trouble.
A similar thing happens in mental illness,but the body has broken down for
other reasons. My mother has been mentally ill for 42 years and I've watched
closely what happens to her. When she is on drugs, she is calm but very
doped up. If she comes off the drugs, she is not herself. The illness
manifests and her spirit leaves or has a very hard time containing the
illness. At these times she is always dealing with archetypal themes. This
is not pleasant to watch, and as she gets older she is breaking down even
more.
I bring this up because many people who have 'K' experiences have had to
spend months in mental hospitals.
The yogis warn us not to try to raise 'K' alone. They say if we have a bad
experience it may set us back many lifetimes. Of course it will, if we
cannot contain it and our bodies totally shortcircuit as my mothers has.
The safest way seems to be to have some kind of structured guidance. I used
Christianity and so my guide was Christ- equally well I could have followed
the Buddha, Moses or a guru who is in a physical body at the moment. What
matters is that I followed Christ's teachings very seriously, and believe me
there is nothing easy about loving your enemies. I spent years asking at
every turn ( and still do) What would Jesus Do?, and then trying to do it.
My only motive was to be closer toGod.
This brings me to my next point. I think that we need to always examine our
motives at every turn. Why do we want to experience'K' ? Is it to be more
spiritual? or is it to glorify ourselves and say we too have gained this
state? Our motives need to be very pure if we are not to experience
derangement permantely when "K" rises. It will all hang out then believe me,
if it didn't before.
Even after "K" there is spiritual development. I approach the future with
trepidation, "K" was bad enough, what next?
Personally I was appalled when it happened, and wondered if I would even
survive.
The experience may parallel the LSD experimentation, in the 60's. Some had
wonderful trips, some went insane, and there are those out there who are
still having bad episodes periodically to this day.
Once it is aroused, there is no going back. What I have experienced is not
glamourous, and there is a big danger of self-inflation with it , those power
- control problems that I still say come from the solar plexus. Sorry that
is my tradition. If power complexes
take over we can completely sideline spirit in the process, and that misses
the point.
We are trying to bring the body and spirit closer together, not drive them
further apart.
At-One-Ment (Atonement) is at one ment of body and spirit.
Much Love
Jule
[7] From: Wendy
Subject: kids
my "identical" twin Scorpios are so competitive
bicker bicker bicker
it makes me laugh
it's nice to see so many kids here in the neighborhood
to "play" with
URL: http://www.tiac.net/users/wenders
Being mad in a world gone sane might be counter-productive.
- WAG
___________________________
Don't take advice, take a chance, roll the dice, learn to dance.
- David Wilcox
__________________________
[8] From: LwMema3ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: A View - Through My Eyes
Debee-
Thank you for the wonderful story, I think it is just what was needed (IMO).
It is very inspirational... :D
Light and Love,
Lori
[9] From: georgevATNOSPAMeor.com (georgev)
Subject: Who is it god or the universe that is our spiritual center?
Real angels and a gods halo was a helmet. In the new world they thought
they were gods becasue of the helmets and their space suits. It was the
mistake to think that someone from outer space was your god. Some did
create us but through genetic energineering. There is a creator and
that is the universe. All the things that are...are. What is...is.
Observe the world as it is and it will give you its knowlege for free.
Transend your distractions and reboot to the source of the universe. We
are spiritual aliens in human bodys. By rebooting to the source of the
universe our spirits get their source data so that we can just observe
the world as it is and also change it to a alien spirit in a human body.
george
[10] From: Natha Bhaktyananda
Subject: Answers
Patti has written:
Natha,
Thank you for your reply.
First I wish to assure you I meant no harm with my question. I believe it is
a loving thing to do to clear up any questions one might have about another
before leaping to conclusions.
---------
To Patti,
Thanks for your kind reply; neither has it ever been in my intention to offend
anybody, but only to restore the truth to the position it deserves. I hope to
hear good things from you further on.
God's joy with you,
Bhaktyananda
---------------------------------------
Graham has written:
(...) Simply because a specific term
does not appear in someones vocabulary doesn't mean that it should be
ignored completely and discredited.
(...) In spiritual matters, or any matter, one has to be cognizant that there
are widely differing viewpoints and language to describe those viewpoints.
(...) What effect are you likely to have on a person if you
rebuff their ideas because you disagree with the language they use?
(...) All you can do is present the information to them, one should
never judge for another what is correct in incorrect.
---------
To Graham,
You sure have lectured a lot (and with a lot of good words :-) on the policy of
writting oily messages to others, but unfortunately I have to confess that I am
no politician. So if next time you are going to inform us that Paris lies
somewhere close to the South Pole, I am simply going to denounce that as mere
bull, even if "one should never judge... etc.". If I have disagreed with some
opinions expressed on the list (and I intend to keep up the good work whenever
necessary :-), you can be sure that that was not because of "lacking those
terms in the vocabulary" or "because I disagreed with the language", but simply
because the ideas *were* false. As about the effect of such poor politic sense,
I keep hoping that this is a discussion list and not a United Nations' meeting,
and that people do not take personally the unavoidable stumblings in the
trial-and-error process of discovering the truth.
Spiritually yours,
--
Natha Bhaktyananda
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668
[11] From: HB28277ATNOSPAMsprynet.com
Subject: Re: Confusion in the light
Thank you Natha Bhaktyananda, for your clarification.
>Please write more!
sincerly,
Michael
[12] From: Graham Dumpleton
Subject: Re: Answers
Natha Bhaktyananda wrote:
>
> You sure have lectured a lot (and with a lot of good words :-) on the policy
of writting > oily messages to others, but unfortunately I have to confess that
I am no politician. So > if next time you are going to inform us that Paris
lies somewhere close to the South > Pole, I am simply going to denounce that as
mere bull, even if "one should never > judge... etc.".
So you should. An underlying message intrinisic to the ideas I have
been expressing is that no matter who says something, whether it me, a
friend, the government or some spiritual teacher, you should not simply
believe them because of who or what they are. Even when we reach the
point of giving our lives into the care of God, this does not remove
our responsibility to discriminate between different information we
receive. It is our responsibility to live from day to day, God is there
to guide us, not tell us what to do. If we were not to discriminate
and judge, we could either end up doing nothing, or eventually put
ourselves in extreme physical danger. We have to still make decisions
in order to be able to determine what is the correct action in any
situation in order to preserve our bodies (vehicle) and continue to
honour God.
One area where it is important to exercise discrimination and
judgement is when we hear gossip. There were recently comments made
about the sexual activities of certain Gurus. In reality how can we
know the truthfulness or otherwise of such information given that we
are so distant from the event. We would use our discrimination and
subsequently judge the information as to its validity or otherwise.
But even when we judge it, in the case of gossip, is it really a wise
thing to continue to propogate it further.
To quote from Sivananda:
Energy is wasted in too much talking, unnecessary worry and
vain fear. Gossiping and tall-talk should be given up entirely.
A real Sadhaka is a man of few words, to the point and that too
on spiritual matters only.
PS. Don't believe a word I say. Make up your own mind. :-)
--
Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au)
[13] From: Wendy
Subject: ego
seems to be quite a bit of ego on here
can i play?
URL: http://www.tiac.net/users/wenders
Being mad in a world gone sane might be counter-productive.
- WAG
___________________________
Don't take advice, take a chance, roll the dice, learn to dance.
- David Wilcox
__________________________
[14] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: a few pondering questions
Michele,
Your right, no one can put a label on what is coming down these days. Because
things are moving so fast spiritually we have the perfect opportunity to
simply let go and with total faith in our creator/God, the source, whatever,
we become absorbed in the tremendous force.
This started for me when I was an infant, and these next 50 years have been a
moment to moment awakening experience with my teaching and initations from
the spirit world. When we are prepared for awakening from previous times, it
isn't that remarkable that one would awake, is it? Just observe, be thankful,
love all you meet, and hang on. Gloria
[15] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Touchy subjects & an Introduction
Snowbird,
HI, your mediations will help you relieve fears, thoughts, and anxiety about
what ever is happening in your life. If you can meditate and become the
observer, you can carry that knowledge forward with you. Then you can become
the observer in all of your experience. When you get back far enough, one day
the illusion will break, you will find that inner truth, peace, and love that
will carry you for eternity. Everytime you open up to it, it is there. Gloria
[16] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Von's inspiring experience
Natha,
I don't know that it is important to decide if one's experience is spiritual
of mental, the important thing is that the awakening caused enough shock to
the system that one is asking the questions necessary for that soul.
Since we are living at a unique period in history, we will see many methods
appear which were not normal 50 or 100, 200 years ago. It is vital that one
is open to this moment, for this second is alive with potential and
possibility for all. Let's remember that.
I have enjoyed your posts. Thank you. Gloria
[17] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: brief intro and stuff
John,
Thanks for sharing about your experience, many people will open up through
Tai Chi or other self disciplines. The important thing is to recognize that
the body and soul can come together in the process, and provided one is
detached enough to observe the experience it will evolve. So many people are
hungry for knowledge, but there is nothing more important that direct
spiritual experience because you are coming to know who you are as a
spirit/soul. Isn't this what it is all about? Gloria
[18] From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Answers
Hi: Graham Dumpleton
------------------------------------------
You posted a reply to Natha Bhaktyananda's words in which he said:
> You sure have lectured a lot (and with a lot of good words :-) on the
policy of writing
> oily messages to others, but unfortunately I have to confess that I am no
politician. So
> if next time you are going to inform us that Paris lies somewhere close to
the South
> Pole, I am simply going to denounce that as mere bull, even if "one should
never
> judge... etc.".
----------------------------------------------
Your reply was:
>So you should. An underlying message intrinsic to the ideas I have
been expressing is that no matter who says something, whether it me, a
friend, the government or some spiritual teacher, you should not simply
believe them because of who or what they are. Even when we reach the
point of giving our lives into the care of God, this does not remove
our responsibility to discriminate between different information we
receive. It is our responsibility to live from day to day, God is there
to guide us, not tell us what to do. If we were not to discriminate
and judge, we could either end up doing nothing, or eventually put
ourselves in extreme physical danger. We have to still make decisions
in order to be able to determine what is the correct action in any
situation in order to preserve our bodies (vehicle) and continue to
honor God
-----------------------------------------
Some how I have to feel a little sadness by the replies made to Natha. It's
none of my business, I know. Natha is very knowledgeable in the subject area
of kundalini. Most people in the U.S are not aware at all about the deep
aspects of kundalini. Natha was trying to do what he could do to clear up
many misconceptions on this subject. He did not have to, but I for one am
very happy that he did. If I had his knowledge I am not sure if I would even
try to explain to the general public. All along I was just waiting for the
rebuttals to start coming in. I am sure that he also knew that some people
would not agree, but he still tried. Now days it is almost impossible to get
good information on this type of subject. As you could see in the previous
post every thing just turned into sex.
I really appreciate a different few point some times.
-------------------------------------------------
You said:
>One area where it is important to exercise discrimination and
judgement is when we hear gossip. There were recently comments made
about the sexual activities of certain Gurus.
------------------------------------------------
Every single person in this would has many skeletons in their closet or they
would not be in this world. >The sexual activities of certain Gurus.
These Gurus and also T.V. evangelists should know before they get involved
with spiritual things that the creative energy will be awakened. They should
not always think they are God. That is were the problem starts. They are
not God so they will surely fall down. I will never set myself up as a Gurus
or an evangelists, Etc. I am just a man. If some one comes up to me and
says to me, I saw you in the bar last night or what ever. I will say I am
just a man and I sure am not God. If you noticed many Gurus never wanted to
be thought of as a Guru. It was the followers that built the organizations
up and called these teachers Gurus, Etc. Many of them would be very happy to
just live in a cave and many do.
------------------------------------
You said:
>To quote from Sivananda:
Energy is wasted in too much talking, unnecessary worry and
vain fear. Gossiping and tall-talk should be given up entirely.
A real Sadhaka is a man of few words, to the point and that too
on spiritual matters only.
--------------------------------------
Yes, I do agree with that quote, but I am not Sivananda. I am just a man.
Love,
Von
[19] From: LMcilvennaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Touchy subjects & an Introduction
My experience with kundalini energy began with Hypnosis also. I was seeing a
counslor to work through some issues around sexuality and control. Because
I found it very difficult to communicate verbally, he suggested we try some
hypnosis. Once we had preceded through the breathing exercises and entered a
room, he asked me to see someone on the stage. My head started to burn and I
had this incredible pressure. All of a sudden, I do was out of my body and
could see my body convulsing all over the place. This experience has been
very violent at times, including banging heads on the floor, trying to pull
hair out and scratching and slapping of self. It also has included speaking
in tongues and sexual activity.
[20] From: LMcilvennaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Kundalini and mental illness
Jule,
I appreciated your post. I also come at the Kundalini experience from a
Christian perspective. I would be curious to hear more about your experience
and how it has changed/challenged your understanding of God and Christian
theology.
Lisa