Date: Thu, 11 Jul kundalini-l-d Digest	Volume 96 : Issue 45 
[1] From: Royale Jills 
Subject: Re: Gods Amoung Us

And they are right!  Royale

At 07:11 AM 7/11/96 -0700, Jim Cook wrote:
>
>
>     Thousands of years ago, Egyptianss worshipped cats as Gods.
>     Cats have never forgotten this.
>
>.-
>
>


[2] From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: re: Important topics of discussion

The posts about orgasms went over my head I don't know why but I think people 
should be able to talk about all aspects of the K and not feel censored. I 
too felt some incredible sexual energies when the K was released in me, but 
at the time I didn't know what it was or why I felt so "hot". And mean hot 
litterally, sweating profusely at the time.

As I said before, if I'm not ready to read about some topic, I just put it in 
a corner and read it later when I feel I'm ready and interested. Talking 
about the tantric stance on orgasm is not dirty talk. It's very much part of 
any being. And I believe we're still part of the human race, aren't we?

With love to all.
>
>
>
>I so hope the list stays open to all issues regarding k-energy.
>I, too, had some trouble with the sexual references at first, but 
>I want to grow and learn and be more than I have been.  That requires 
>me to take a deep breath and stretch out of the former, more limited 
>self.  Thanks to all who challenge me to grow.  Karol Ann
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com


[3] From: kashiATNOSPAMlava.net (David A. Katz)
Subject: Re: Chi theory

>From: kashiATNOSPAMlava.net (David A. Katz)
>Subject: Re: Chi theory
>
>Namaste all.  I have one objection only to the Chi/Sex discussion - no one
has challenged the notion that the goal of this practice is better sex, more
exquisite physical orgasms.  That notion, clearly expressed in the original
comments,  is contrary and detrimental to this discussion group.   Sex as a
means to inner, spiritual awakening  -- absolutely, it is after all the
outer expression of the very same energy we need to rise ABOVE the five
senses.  But as a means to BETTER SEX?!  Ridiculous.  Lets curb the
worldliness please.  
>                        --David
>
>
>>Hi everyone,
>>Personally, I find the current discussion of the Chi Theory most refreshing.
>>When I first began to experience the awakenening of kundalini, one of the
>>most powerful manifestations was of increased sexual energy and I found very
>>few people who were willing to discuss this aspect of kundalini.  Perhaps
>>many still find a conflict with sexuality and spirituality, ever the product
>>of the culture we live in.    But sexuality is a very real part of what we
>>are, as human beings, and to refuse to talk about it is to deny a very
>>important part of all of us.  So far, I think the discussion has been
>>tastefully addressed and has opened up whole new avenues where previously
>>these subjects were not publically bantered about.  I would like to see
>>these kinds of things brought up as long as they are relevant to kundalini
>>but not to the exclusion of other equally relevant topics.  
>>Judy
>>
>>
>>
>


[4] From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: short K overview

I agree with your reply, except that in my case and other's cases as well the 
kundalini energy has been released "spontaneously". I had the big waves 
before I knew anything about kundalini or other forces. I felt the blocks 
beeing overcome and now it's like I'm on cruise control. I had wonderful 
experiences during meditation. But everything I went through came 
instinctively, like I'm actor and witness at the same time. 

Before I found out about other people having the same experiences, I really 
thought I was going mad. 

Right now, I just want to let things unfold on their own, but reading your 
posts and others about chi and other theories made me think I was 
intellectually lazy. But I think that for now, I won't push and let things 
happen. 

Thank you for your advice.



>>Would you be kind enough to share with us where you found those
> descriptions?
>>To this day, I found books with yoga and meditation exercises for
> kundalini
>>-it says we shouldn't attempt those exercises without supervision from a
>>master-
>
>>From my own experience, the quickest, best way to stimulate Kundalini is
>Shaktipat from a realized being.
>
>When you receive Shaktipat, Kundalini is awakened, blocks are removed, and
>you are given a glimpse of the 'SELF'.
>
>I've read that although it is possible for one to stimulate the Kundalini
>on one's own, that it isn't recommended because the Kundalini gets
>'irritated' (that was the term used) when it is stimulated and encounters
>blocks on the way up to the crown chakra.
>
>> I found a book with the physio-kundalini symptoms, but nothing that
>>truly gives me indications on the flux and reflux of energies and the
> meaning
>>of such and such symptom happening in us.
>
>When people receive shaktipat (and you don't need the presence of a master;
>Muktananda's books release shakti when read) they manifest all sorts of
>phenomena like you read about on this list. They moo, make cat and dog
>sounds, fibrillate on the floor. Some have to be carried out into 'Kriya'
>rooms.
>
>The manifestations, whatever they are, are supposed to be the cleansing of
>your nadis (spiritual nerves). Nothing to be afraid of. There are visions,
>and all sorts of experiences. It's pretty individualized.
>
>I wouldn't read too much into the specific manifestations. It's enough just
>to know what's happening in general.
>
>When Muktananda's guru, Nityananda, initiated him, he had already studied
>with other yogis for 25 years. Nityananda didn't tell him what he did, or
>what to expect. All sorts of bizarre spontaneous events occurred. He roared
>like a tiger until the villagers thought there was a tiger. His body was
>jerked around into all sorts of spontaneous yoga asanas, mudras, and more.
>
>At one point he left his village  because he was extremely fearful and
>thought he was going crazy. After traveling, he stayed one night in a
>Sadhana hut in an orchard and found a book left by a previous Yogi
>describing all the bizarre experiences he himself was having. At that point
>he realized he had been initiated with shakti.
>
>At least these days we know what to expect.
>
>Muktananda wrote lots of books. I just happen to be studying him at this
> time.
>
>His book on Kundalini, Meditation, and Mystery of the Mind are terrific.
>
>His book, Play of conciousness goes into his own experiences, which I
>believe you would find very interesting.
>
>I bought traditional eastern books
>>and I still have to put it all together in my head in a "logical" pattern.
>
>Don't waste your time thinking about it too much.
>
>that particular quotation came from Muktananda's book,
>
>KUNDALINI The Secret Of Life
>
>>
>>Most symptoms are happening from my neck up now. Still constantly feeling
>>energies in the crown and brow chakra, pressure on the skin of my face on
>>each side, near the ears. And now I have this something in my throat, like
>>something is stuck there.
>
>there is 'nectar' which drips down from the back of the throat. Ever get a
>taste? It's pretty cool and refreshing. There is a mudra where the tongue
>is curled up against the palate. Are you familiar?
>
>
>
> I know it has a meaning, I just don't know what. My
>>breathing is somewhat shallow. However, I feel at peace most of the time.
>>
>
>Is that during practice, or just spontaneous?
>
>>Why do I skip my yoga sessions these days? It's true that we're going
> through
>>a deep cleansing process, and it's like I've been given a different point
> of
>>view of everything.
>
>The Kundalini uses spontaneous asanas to cleanse the nadis
>
>
>
>
>>
>>How do you put some order in your head, with all that we have to learn?
> The
>>more I learn, the more I know there is more yet to learn. There is a sea
> of
>>data floating in my head right now, waiting to be organized. Maybe I want
> to
>>much too soon.
>
>
>The quicker you can reach the state of 'No thinking'. The happier you will
>be. Don't worry, you won't disappear.
>
>The body is a field. The one who knows the body is the 'knower of the
>field'. If you are the knower, you obviously aren't the body.
>
>The mind is the body of the soul. (pure conciousness, the self) The mind is
>a field. Identify with the 'knower of the field' rather than with the
>field, and you will just understand without having to think about it.
>
>the mind, directed at the self, during meditation, melts and merges back
>into the self. It is just an extension of the self.
>
>driving a car is meditation. Yoga is meditation. any act of concentration
>is meditation. concentration on the self is the purpose of meditation.
>
>"As you think, so you become".
>
>The mind takes on the aspects of that which it focuses on. Focus on the
>self and the mind will reflect the aspects and qualities of the self.
>
>
>Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com


[5] From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Re: Comments

Dear Von,

You wrote:
> Yes, several conversations can be going on at once, but it is not
happening
> because the post is open to only certain types personalities.  If  you are
> not one of those personalities then your mail will not be posted even
though
> the subject matter is concerning kundalini.  

This doesn't make any sense to me.  This is an open list, ALL posts sent to
the address (KUNDALINI-LATNOSPAMEXECPC.COM) are forwarded to everyone on it.

If you or anyone else on the list are having a problem with posts not
appearing, please let me know.  It could be a temporary problem with the
service provider execpc.  But it is not because of any type of censorship.

Please let me know what you meant here.  I am curious.

Richard  

--
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com     http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
............................................................................
Every day I shall put my papers in order and every day I shall 
say farewell.  And the real farewell, when it comes, will only be 
a small outward confirmation of what has been accomplished 
within me from day to day.
-Etty Hillesum


 
[6] From: kentATNOSPAMgatezone.com (Spark)
Subject: Re: Your nature and the nature of this list

Mary writes:

>I hope this makes some sense and is received in the spirit in which it was
>written.

  Sounded good to me...  I must have missed something.  I read someone's
concerns about energy and sexual topics and then it sounds like there's
been some other concerns?

   As many of you know there are moderated and unmoderated listservers and
this one seems to be unmoderated, right Richard?  It's a wonderful
opportunity to trust, grow beyond comfort zones, and be a pioneer.  Totally
fascinating process.  We live in transinteresting times.

  For a kundalini list to feel squeamish about sensuality and sexuality is
a little paradoxical, but understandable.  Just because certain energy
currents are getting activated doesn't mean our social conditioning is
ideal.

  Trust, common sense, and taking responsibility for my thoughts, feelings,
actions *and* posts  keeps me out of trouble 90% of the time.  The other
10% is something I have to own too, but it's uncomfortable and what I'd
call my most fertile growth zone.

  Sexuality within the context of energy awakening and the kundalini
experience seems to be a very valid subject that can be useful without
triggering too much fear and concern that this will turn into alt.kunda.sex
.  Sex is just another part of life.  I think there is a lot of
misunderstanding about kundalini, tantra, laya/chakra yoga, magick, etc.
and nine times out of ten people shutdown with their own internal images.

  You can't please all the people all the time.  But hopefully there can be
a degree of graciousness and good will.  The message of the Gita is still a
powerful one that maybe should come along with Internet connection kits
.


kenting



     Private Communication          GateZone Communications
   ___________________________
         Internet, network, database tools, and the
    training to make them work for you and your organization.
   ___________________________
   Kent Livingston      kentATNOSPAMgatezone.com         512.443.8855



[7] From: COSMIC333ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: introduction/chi theory

I have been silent for a while now... just listening... but I feel compeled
to move on the subject of kundalini and sexuality.... I feel the two are
inseparable... as the kundalini energy becomes active it purifies the
body/mind/emotional self make room for the soul to more freely flow and
express itself.. melding with and expanding the ego... sexual energies the
first to be activated.. and also where many if not most of our emotional
blockages are located... 

It is fundamental we honor this process... communicating about it... is very
very important to the overall process...

Charles


[8] From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Re: Comments about the List

Dear Von,

You wrote:
> Yes, several conversations can be going on at once, but it is not
happening
> because the post is open to only certain types personalities.  If  you are
> not one of those personalities then your mail will not be posted even
though
> the subject matter is concerning kundalini.  

This doesn't make any sense to me.  This is an open list, ALL posts sent to
the address (KUNDALINI-LATNOSPAMEXECPC.COM) are forwarded to everyone on it.

If you or anyone else on the list are having a problem with posts not
appearing, please let me know.  It could be a temporary problem with the
service provider execpc.  But it is not because of any type of censorship.

Please let me know what you meant here.  I am curious.

Richard  

--

--
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com     http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
............................................................................
By working hard 8 hours a day you may get to be
the boss and work 12 hours a day. 


[9] From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Server Problem

Dear Listmembers,

It seems that the server has been a little flakey today.  If anyone has
posted today and has not yet seen their post(s) on the list, please resend
them.

I've contacted the list provider, and will let you know what they say.

Richard

--
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com     http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
............................................................................
The problem is not that there are problems.  The problem is 
expecting otherwise and thinking that having problems
is a problem.
Theodore Rubin


[10] From: kentATNOSPAMgatezone.com (Spark)
Subject: Server kinks?

Richard,

  My postare showing as usual.  It's posssible that some people are on BBS
or UUCP types of connections and are just lagging more than the more direct
connecitons...?   With the Net anything is possible... probable.

kent


     Private Communication          GateZone Communications
   ___________________________
         Internet, network, database tools, and the
    training to make them work for you and your organization.
   ___________________________
   Kent Livingston      kentATNOSPAMgatezone.com         512.443.8855



[11] From: kashiATNOSPAMlava.net (David A. Katz)
Subject: Re: a note about Patty's question

>Garry,

        Fascinating experience, and I thank you for sharing it.  Sorry I
didn't respond sooner -distractions abound here.  
My dearest friend in my late teens was homosexual and exceedingly 
spiritual.  The understanding I came away with after years of discussion 
with him was that gays are deeply in touch with the feminine energy of 
creation.  In Hindu philosophy, it is the Mother, the OM, the creative 
vibration of God which is the first, closest and most important contact we 
can have with the Divine.  I developed an image for clarity using Christian 
terminology so I could explain the eastern vision to my friends in the west: 
The Father is like the very core of the sun in the sky, pure, untouched,
nothing but 
absolute Light and Joy.  To touch the father is to be burnt to a crisp,
nothing remaining save The Father, the Only Reality. 

 The Son is the Light and Joy of  the Father (the 
sun) which extends outward to the atmosphere of the earth (ie; creation).  
It does not touch creation, but is the bridge of Light in between creation 
and the Absolute. 

 The Holy Spirit (Mother) is the Light of God which 
illumines creation, ie; creates through vibration.  It is in and of the Lord's 
creation, for in the Mother God touches the earth, us.  We must return to 
the Absolute out of which we arose through the Mother, then the Son, and 
then, disappearing back into the Formless.  Such is the Trinity:  Father, 
Son, Holy Spirit -- Tat, Sat, Om in Hinduism.   

Gays and females are more readily in touch with God because more naturally
attuned to the Holy Spirit, the feminine aspect of God.  It is more
difficult for men, I believe.  Men are more deluded as a rule (care to check
the world's statistics on crime to verify?).  

As a youth I used to have a weird desire to be a woman or gay, not because
of any homosexual leanings (I am "straight"), but because it was intuitively
clear to me that females/male gays were closer to Love and Light.  

In short, I think you are blessed by your orientation.  

    Thats all I wanted to say. Hope it makes sense to you.   --David

>Bright Blessings

>

>This is my first post so bare with me. 

>

>Paty was asking about ascending and decending energy. I thought maybe an 
>experiance I had about four years ago might be of intrest. 
>
>It was an extremly low point in my life. In fact looking back I could say 
>I was trying to psychicly do my self in. 
>As this was befor I became involved in Wicca, I didn't have a good handle 
>on what was going on with me. One thing I have noticed is while these 
>kinds of experiances are occuring they make perfect sense to my  mind. It
is only 
>after word that my rational self wakes up to a sense of unreality. 
>
>Any way back to the other reality. I had spent the better part of the day 
>draining my energy into attempting to heal others, while depleting 
>myself. At one point I heard a voice say to me, "Quit this, you are 
>killing your self". Wether this was my inner self trying to get me to put 
>on the brakes befor I slid off the edge of the world. Or, it was an 
>external influnce. I would vote for the latter. 
>
>After midnight that same day I was so exausted I was developing heart 
>palpataions. It was then I sensed what felt like body temperture water 
>flowing up out of the floor at me. I knew on some level that this was 
>life force itself. In the state I was in I though I didn't belive I 
>deserved it. So, I tryed to push it away with my own energy. The second 
>I made contact with this energy it flowed into me like a river. Still 
>lost in depression I couldn't apprectate the blessing this was at the 
>time. 
>
>What will probably be of more interst to others is the experiance that 
>occured about two AM that nihgt. 
>
>I was walking through the house when I sudenely stopped. I could sense 
>that there was something I was suppose to be doing. I felt my energy 
>suddenly get very clear. The next part of what happened felt like part of 
>something I had just remembered. 
>
>I knelt down and called to the Mother. I could feel her energy flow up 
>into me. The visual effect was of seeing this very thin tall cone of 
>enegy flow up into my body. The sence I had is that this cone terminated 
>somewhere over my head. 
>
>Then I stood up, and called to the Father. I could feel the energy 
>coming. It was similar to the first but I could sense its diffrence. I 
>can't say it was of a diffrent polarity as some have sugested to me. It 
>was more like I knew it was part of the whole of this other energy. 
>
>The rest of what I called on I didn't have a clue as to where the 
>mythology came from untill later. 
>
>Deep within the beginings of this vision I precived this birliant blue 
>star off to my left. I knew its name as the Daughter Star. I called to 
>its energy and welcomed it in. 
>
>Then to my right, I could feel more than see them. I am still not sure 
>who they are. I know I have called them the Brothers since my child hood. I 
>can tell you they embody the awairness of the Children of the Dream Time, 
>the Dolphin's. Along with something that has to do with the winds and 
>storms for that matter. It feels to me like their energy is very old. 
>Far older than the life force I sensed in the cones of enegy. 
>
>If in case you are getting totaly confused, bare in mind that this is 
>part of my personal mythology that is still developing through my 
>practice of Wicca. 
>
>Finally I may get to the refernce that Patty made.
>When I had called in all of these elements of my vision into one whole 
>energy the efect was awsome. In an instant I knew why the Druids 
>worshiped trees. That was exactly waht the energy felt like. 
>
>I could since the energy of the Earth flowing up into me as the energy 
>from above flowed down mixed with and transformed the energy of the 
>living tree that was my energy. This process must have  gone on for over 
>a half hour. I suppect others of you may have noticed when you enter 
>sacred space time looses meaning. 
>
>Part of what I was having to deal with at this time in my life was a lack 
>of understanding about my own Queer Sacredness. This was one thing after 
>that night I would never question again. 
>
>It came without me asking. I was an awarness of my own being. It was an 
>wareness of what it is to be Queer in the sacredness of creation. It was 
>not so much  a voice as a knowing. In that instant I knew that we queers 
>exist within the on going awakening of creation with purpose. 
>
>I cann't really put into words what I precived that night. I can tell you 
>though that gay's existance in this reality has something to do with 
>anchoring hunman existance in reality. 
>
>Well enogh chatter for my first post
>
>Blessed Be
>
>Garry Hunsaker
>
>


[12] From: Melissa Ann Fornof 
Subject: sex and K

First of all, I have not gotten the impression that the discussion of 
orgasms and the like are intended to generate better sex--I sort of felt 
that the spiritual aspects via the physical were a given, and the info 
was to help people with some problems sexually/spiritually, and to help 
people perfect the physical acts of sex and orgasm IN ORDER TO reach a 
higher spirituality.  That's what I saw.

As for the terminology, just the words "orgasm" and "come" make me 
cringe--most especially the latter--but I feel that is MY problem.  I 
don't think in reality (as it were) that the words in themselves are 
"bad," or "vulgar," etc.  Again, I believe it is just our 
Judeao-Christian Western society that labels words as such.  Just because 
someone uses the word "come" to describe the physical act of ejaculation 
doesn't mean they are being perverted--it's just a slang term for a 
physical reality.  WE interpret it as something else.  (my opinion)  I 
don't think these words or sexually-oriented words undermine the beauty 
or spirituality of sex--except maybe "in the eyes of the beholder."

Von, I found your post very offensive, though it does not concern me 
directly.  You have been on this list long enough to know that the 
subjects vary widely.  To claim that the entire list is not "meaningful" 
because one particular string of conversation is unsettling to you is not 
fair.  There is much to gain from this list.  If you don't like a 
particular thread of conversation, use your trash button.  Don't group 
everyone together in the same category.  Not everyone agrees with the 
discussion you find unappealing.  

Personally, I enjoyed them, because it is addressing
complicated/controversial issues pertaining to Kundalini.  I don't fully 
understand them, but I take note of them and put the rest away for 
evaluation later.  I don't agree with your idea that these conversations 
are of a "mass mind mentality."  I explained above how I relate their 
ideas to spirituality, something I think was the ultimate, underlying 
intention of everyone in that thread all along.

As for the lack of other chat, I agree with the "ebb and flow" theory.  
So far, I have seen posts about very different things going on at once.  
And I've seen days when there were barely any posts at all.  It could be 
just that not many people have had anything to say recently.  I certainly 
haven't myself, until reading these responses to "chi theory."  Also, 
from what I have seen on the list so far, no one is afraid to come out 
and say, "I don't like this," or "move it off line."  If people weren't 
posting during this thread, I don't believe it is due to people being 
"turned off" by the conversation--some one would have said so if that was 
the case.  (my opinion) That actually may be true for one or two 
individuals, but I don't think the entire lull was for that reason. 

Well, that's all I have to say right now.  I haven't had anything to post 
myself lately, as I mentioned.  (I've been contributing to the lull 
myself, and it hasn't been because of the conversation strand.)

Love to all, Melissa


[13] From: "Debee L. Thomas" 
Subject: Meditation/Creative Visualization

Hello Everyone,
	I'd like to take a moment and tell everyone about a new web page 
which is under construction.  It will be devoted to Meditation and 
Creative Visualization.  The meditations which will be posted will be 
those which will assist the arising Kundalini, balancing Chakras, 
clearing Chakras and in general, help pave the way.  I'll be hosting this 
new web site for the Kundalini Resource Center in Hawaii thanks to Bill Peay.
My purpose at this time is to see if any of you would like to contribute 
to this new site.  I'm asking all who are interested to send meditations 
and creative visualizations to me which will help the Kundalini process.
Even affirmations can be useful.  I plan on adding the names of those who 
contribute, so if you would rather not have your name appear, please let 
me know.  One last thing, please give Bill a pat on the back for all his 
time and efforts in making this web page possible for everyone!

	As soon as the site is ready, I'll post the URL for everyone.  With
this page will also be one dealing with crystals and stones, their use, and
the chakras which they work with.  Stay tuned for later updates and thanks
for your help.

Blessed Be
Debee