Date: Thu, 11 Jul kundalini-l-d Digest	Volume 96 : Issue 44 
[1] From: Iver Juster 
Subject: Introduction:Chi theory

Energy is energy. It is you who label it. Cultures that label it, make it
inaccessable, sinful, scarce, it is cultures that in their desire to control
others, rate certain energy experiences as good and others, not so good. 

Energy is in every chakra. It is the same energy in the crown, in the
throat, in the heart, in the root, just the energy manifesting in different
ways.

And yes, the brain is the biggest sex organ of all. It is very possible to
have full blown full body orgasm without being touched. The Cherokee
firebreath is one example. There are  more.

An orgasm in the brain has been called "meditation". 

Stevie:
Thanks for your friendly way of being. :->
I am concerned that my answer to your question will take us a bit away from
the topic of the kundalini and will answer you offline. 

Best to all, Patti


[2] From: jetATNOSPAMbbs.backdoor.com
Subject: re:introduction/chi theory

Steve:  In 1991 I started practicing tantric yoga from a book by Mantak Chia. 
I thought it was great how much more energy injaculations gave me.  I was about
to move from San Francisco to Seattle, so I especially appreciated the extra
boost for getting everything packed and moved.  Even though the book stressed
the dangers of such a practice, emphasizing that each exercise should be
followed to the letter, I didn't take it too seriously.  Two weeks after moving
to Seattle I wish I had.  I experienced a sudden kundalini awakening of
devastating proportions.  One day I just fell to the floor and started crying. 
I didn't know what I was crying about.  I hadn't cried much before.  I thought
I'd just cry myself out, but that didn't happen.  Day after day I'd cry for
hours on end.  I'd wake up each morning finding my whole body shaking
uncontrollably.  Tremendous energy surges would propel me through the day.  I
had no idea what was happening.  It was very difficult to hold things together
enough to function at my job.  I started "seeing" things psychicly, things that
weren't very pleasant.  A "psychic pain" started that would increase by the
day.  A friend from San Francisco came up to stay with me, to make sure I'd eat
and get to work on time.  I'd start panicking if I was alone for too long. 
Eventually, I couldn't hold it together anymore.  I lost my job and my
apartment.  I moved back to San Francisco and stayed with friends until I
became so paranoid that I had to register myself in a mental institute.  I was
in and out of mental institutes and halfway houses from January to December
1992.  I remember the pain being so great that many times my knees would buckle
and I'd fall to the ground.  I hope I never have to experience anything like
1992 again.  They diagnosed me with post-traumatic stress syndrome.  And it's
true, that a lot of what I was experiencing was the effect of the abusive
childhood I suffered.  But I now know it was so much more than that.  What I
was able to see was the parallels my abuse had to my own past lives.  The
kundalini awakening for me was an overwhelming psychic cleansing.  So I can see
the good it did.  I just wish my life didn't have to be destroyed to do it.  I
also realize that before my breakdown, I was very slightly connected to my
emotional self.  That's another reason why the awakening was so difficult.  But
now whenever I hear someone is doing tantric yoga, I shutter.  I'm glad you
have an instructor.  I'm glad you're feeling good with it.  My wish for you is
that you be very careful with it.  Peace, love and the whole damn thing.  James.


[3] From: cmwithATNOSPAMcris.com (Michelle Withers)
Subject: re:introduction/chi theory [2]

Dear all,

Michelle here.  I am going out on a limb and suggesting that you are all
turning many of us off with this discussion.  Have you noticed that there
is no other chat except for this sexual discussion??

Maybe it would be more appropriate to take this off-line?

Michelle


[4] From: ori^ 
Subject: Relationship between kundalini/tantra/sexual energy

Hello Michelle and all,

I rarely respond to a post so quickly, but I feel strongly about this
due to my own experiences.

you said:
>Michelle here.  I am going out on a limb and suggesting that you are all
>turning many of us off with this discussion.  Have you noticed that there
>is no other chat except for this sexual discussion??

I have been following this thread with great interest.  I had not previously
made the connection between kundalini and tantra.  I am finding much food for
thought in the current discussions.  Since some of my early experiences with
the awakening of this energy (be it kundalini or other) included spontaneous
orgasms (which troubled me... as if I was "doing it wrong")  I am finding
that the current posts bring a freedom of expression which is not easily 
found on most other lists, or most places in my daily life.

I would like to say, without meaning to offend anyone, that maybe there
was no chat because no one had anything to bring up at the moment.  It
is quite common for lists to ebb and flow, particularly during the summer.
Also different topics will bring responses from different list members,
including some who might rarely or never have posted before.

I vote to continue the current thread if people have things to add.
Remember, you can always use the delete key!

ori^
mermaidATNOSPAMeskimo.com


[5] From: vetfindATNOSPAMinteraccess.com (Judy Kavanaugh)
Subject: Chi theory

Hi everyone,
Personally, I find the current discussion of the Chi Theory most refreshing.
When I first began to experience the awakenening of kundalini, one of the
most powerful manifestations was of increased sexual energy and I found very
few people who were willing to discuss this aspect of kundalini.  Perhaps
many still find a conflict with sexuality and spirituality, ever the product
of the culture we live in.    But sexuality is a very real part of what we
are, as human beings, and to refuse to talk about it is to deny a very
important part of all of us.  So far, I think the discussion has been
tastefully addressed and has opened up whole new avenues where previously
these subjects were not publically bantered about.  I would like to see
these kinds of things brought up as long as they are relevant to kundalini
but not to the exclusion of other equally relevant topics.  
Judy


[6] From: HB28277ATNOSPAMsprynet.com
Subject: subject

>i agree with Michelle Withers that the disscusion
of of the energies released by kundalini are of many vari
ations.
>i would like to read about other things like kind acts
and the empowerment thereof.

                              michael


[7] From: Karol Ann Barnett 
Subject: Re: Dreams of Light

Listmembers:

I recently communicated with Dr. Gillian and she made the following
request.  She is an expert in dream analysis, should any of you wish 
to share your dreams with her.

> ps Are you familiar with my research on Dreams of Light? I am collecting
> dreams in which an unusual, spiritual, or suffusive light plays a part. If
> you have any such dreams I would greatly value the opportunity to hear/read
> about them. Thank you.
> visit our web site at http://www.lifetreks.com/~dreams
> 
> Gillian Holloway, Ph.D. 


[8] From: hyperATNOSPAMhmt.com (HyperMedia Technologies)
Subject: tantric yoga

It has been my understanding that the tantric practices include a small
section of practices which are sexually oriented. The word 'tantric' is not
necessarily always associated with sex.

In the tantric sex practices prescribed rituals under the guidence of a
qualified instructor are performed. Many of these rituals involve seeing
the female body parts as symbols of Kali, which are worshipped in different
ways.

However, tantric practices involve a much greater field than just sex rituals.

Correct me if I'm inaccurate, but any practice which involves
visualizations, mantras, pranayama is technically a tantric yoga practice.
It's more mental than it is physical.

The Kama Sutra deals with the asanas of sexual trantric practices.

Those sexual tantric rituals are a double edged sword. There was a quote in
Ramakrishna's book which says something to the effect that the practices
must be done under the auspices of a qualified guru, lest the aspirant fall
into a pit of depravity.

For more detailed info on specific practices you might look at:

The Yoga of Power; Tantra, Shakti, and the secret way.  (and he's not kidding)

by   Julius Evola


Published by:

Inner Traditions International
One Park Street
Rochester  Vermont  05767


isbn   0-89281-368-7


[9] From: Iver Juster 
Subject: re: Important topics of discussion

Dear everyone

The kundalini is about energy and as such the topic includes everything,
from sex, to angels, to religion, to compassion, to healing, to physical
symptoms, to shaktipat, to the evolutionary force, and more.

Many times I have had judgements about topics that felt strange to me, but I
have embraced them all as opportunities to open my mind to the full power
and glory of the k.

Who among us should be the censor? Why are angels acceptable and not orgasms?

I invite everyone to make this list their own, to contribute as they wish,
to read what they wish, and to use the trash key as they wish. Start new
topics, please!

This list has been a beautiful, heart and mind opening opportunity for me to
expand my limits and I treasure differences of opinion.  I have been blessed
to learn more about how k relates to UFOs, dreams, kriyas, healing energy,
chakras, angels, and blue pearls. Also about people, their triumphs and
their pain, and about how we form a unique, amazing community.

Thank you. Please, list, and everyone on it, just keep being what you are.  


Thanks and love to all, Patti

PS The offline correspondence has been terrific!
 


 
[10] From: cmwithATNOSPAMcris.com (Michelle Withers)
Subject: re:introduction/chi theory

Dear all,

Michelle here.  I think I need to defend my position a bit.  :)  don't you
think?

The reason I responded so negatively to the subject of sex and spirituality
is because it hasn't been the same for me as some of you have described it.

I have had a few times (my wedding night was one) when I have been making
love with my husband and I have felt our souls slip together and it is the
MOST exquisite feeling, which leaves me in a terrible state afterwards -
crying - from the withdrawl and separation of our souls - but my
experiences have been totally on a spiritual level, and not so physical as
those which have been described over the past few days within this group.

I guess I wish that we could bring some light into this discussion.  Maybe
start discussing how these feelings you are experiencing regarding
physically feeling the "spirit" move through you has changed you in a
positive way, and how you have looked deeper into your souls..... I just
wish that it were leading to a more spiritually aware place - but I can't
seem to link it in any way to what I am experiencing.....

I guess it has to do with energy moving within our bodies.  Maybe I have a
different way of viewing the energies moving within my body, and interpret
it as heavenly.  And putting such labels as "orgasmic" just don't seem to
fit for me, it just feels wrong.  I far prefer "exquisite", or "elation",
or "ecstacy".  :)  Now those seem more fitting..... :)

I guess that I am happy that you are all learning to express yourselves,
and the experiences you are having, but I just wish it were not of a sexual
nature.  So sorry...

In light and love,

Michelle


[11] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Dreams of Light

On the subject of dreams, it is important to use this as a tool. I am happy
also to help any of you with this. Gloria


[12] From: Karol Ann Barnett 
Subject: re: Important topics of discussion

I so hope the list stays open to all issues regarding k-energy.
I, too, had some trouble with the sexual references at first, but 
I want to grow and learn and be more than I have been.  That requires 
me to take a deep breath and stretch out of the former, more limited 
self.  Thanks to all who challenge me to grow.  Karol Ann


[13] From: Jim Cook 
Subject: Gods Amoung Us

     Thousands of years ago, Egyptianss worshipped cats as Gods.
     Cats have never forgotten this.


[14] From: Jim Cook 
Subject: Re: Remote Healing

   I want to say thank you to everyone who sent prayers and help when
   My dear friend was in the hospital.
   She came home yesterday and she is doing fine.

   Love,
             Jim


[15] From: Stevie 
Subject: re:introduction/chi theory

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996, Michelle Withers wrote:

> Michelle here.  I am going out on a limb and suggesting that you are all
> turning many of us off with this discussion.  Have you noticed that there
> is no other chat except for this sexual discussion??

As a new member of the mailing list, I was expecting lots of post from
people on all subjects, but this isn't happening.  This isn't because of
our discussion, is it?  I mean, several conversations can be going on at
once... but if you really feel this is tangential, consider it moved
off-line.

-steve


[16] From: LwMema3ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Are K and seizures related?

Hello everyone- 
I am a posting a new message with a long story that I will try and keep
short- please read on, I need some help/ advice/ answers... 4 years ago, I
passed out and a month later I had a seizure (grand mal).  It took myself and
my family by complete surprise, I was 19 years old and there is no history of
it in my family.  I also do not believe that I have ever suffered a head
injury.  I was diagnosed with Epiliepsy and began taking Dilantin (anti-
convulsant medication)- really bad stuff.  Anyway, I was seizure free for 3
1/2 years, then in Oct. all went hay-wire.  My Dr. had me overmedicated which
lead to terrible side affects such as double vision.  I had to stop taking
the Fall college classes and I was in bad shape. Then in Nov. I had a seizure
and had to stop driving (not that I could anyway).  Life was getting back to
normal and on Easter morning at 5 am I had another seizure 15mins. this time.
 My question is does Kundalini energy emerging sometimes manifest itself as
seizures?  I am looking for a way to heal myself/ make them stop.  Every
morning I wake up shaking and unsteady- no matter how much sleep I have
gotten.  If anyone could please help I would be very greatful, I do not know
where to go from here?  I do Reiki on myself every day and see an
accupuncturasit from time to time.  I have stopped seeing the Neurologist, I
do not trust him anymore.  Thank you in advance.  Sorry- if this has been too
long.

I have been trying to post for a few days and it keeps getting returned to
me, I hope that this one will get through to all of you.

In Light and Love with many thanks,
          Lori


[17] From: LwMema3ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Gods Amoung Us

Barbara Marciniak wrote in, Earth: "The cats are guardians and assistants for
you, great companions of comfort." (46)  Cats are very spiritual, psychic
animals- they know what is up, to say the least, IMHO.  I agree with Jim in
his post about cats as gods. Would you forget being worshipped in ancient
Egypt?  Animals do remember. As a matter of fact, my black kitty is trying to
get my attention right now.  Does she know I am thinking about her?  Even if
she does make it hard to type when she has come up on my lap. :)  I also
agree, that cats respond very well to the positive energies of crystals and
the love healing energy such as Reiki.
Thank you very much for this list, it is good to be here and I am learning a
lot of  the posts here.  
Light and Love to All,
       Lori (and my three beautiful cats)


[18] From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: introduction/chi theory

HI: Steve

You said 
>As a new member of the mailing list, I was expecting lots of post from
people on all subjects, but this isn't happening.  This isn't because of
our discussion, is it?  I mean, several conversations can be going on at
once... but if you really feel this is tangential, consider it moved
off-line.<

Yes, several conversations can be going on at once, but it is not happening
because the post is open to only certain types personalities.  If  you are
not one of those personalities then your mail will not be posted even though
the subject matter is concerning kundalini.  Some one must be very happy with
this low caliber of post lately or it would not happen.   

You won't see me posting in relation to these sex subjects as the Internet is
flooded with them already and I was expecting a lot more from this  mailing
list.

Guess I was wrong and will move on to something more meaningful and get away
from this mass mind mentality.

As always,
Von


[19] From: David  Pfeffer 
Subject: Personal Effects of Kundalini

Hello,
     My name is David Pfeffer and I am new to the list.   I came across 
Kundalini from a news group posting.  I was wondering about what occurs 
when Kundalini energy begins to "flow" in the body.  I purchased a book 
about Kundalini and the Chakras.  I have been trying the exercises that 
are in the book.  They have been very beneficial to me.  (I have a 
problem with my nervous system.)   The exercises have calmed me 
considerably.  However, in my spine there has been a tingling sensation 
and I get a lot of body shivers after an exercise.  Does someone have 
an idea as to why this occurs?  

Dave
dpfefferATNOSPAMfreenet.hamilton.on.ca     


[20] From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: foundations and shielding

There have been mentions of the cautions one should take if trying to
arouse the kundalini energies and repeated references to having a
foundation for this experience.  In reading JOY's WAY this was brought to
mind and somewhat explained.  The author states that disbelief is like a
shield.  Before one begins a transpersonal journey their very disbelief in
disencarnates protects them from unpleasant experiences with them.  As the
journey begins however it is wise to protect or shield one's self with
other higher powers and/or a know of one's own power.  He also mentions
the "shouting 'get out of here' " technique as being very effective.

I hope this is helpful to those who had questions about these concepts
earlier.  It was helpful to me.

Mary


 
[21] From: Royale Jills 
Subject: ircs

So you know an irc line that discusses K?  Please tell me the location and
how to get there.  Thanks. Royale


[22] From: Jim Cook 
Subject: Thank You

   I want to thank you all for your prayers and help when my dear
   friend was in the hospital. 
   She is home now and doing fine.
 
   Love,
              Jim


[23] From: Royale Jills 
Subject: Re: Personal Effects of Kundalini [19]

Welcome to the list.  I wondering if you have had previous experiences with
K.  If not I strongly recommend that you go slowly.  Doing exercises like
this can bring up all kinds of material some pleasant, some not, some
overpowering.  Royale


[24] From: Royale Jills 
Subject: re:introduction/chi theory

On the sex expressions Michelle, I do know how you feel.  Talking is o.k.
but i think a better choice of words would help alot.  Sex shouldnt be crude
or vulgar, but a thing of beauty. Royale


At 10:38 PM 7/10/96 -0500, Michelle Withers wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>Michelle here.  I think I need to defend my position a bit.  :)  don't you
>think?
>
>The reason I responded so negatively to the subject of sex and spirituality
>is because it hasn't been the same for me as some of you have described it.
>
>I have had a few times (my wedding night was one) when I have been making
>love with my husband and I have felt our souls slip together and it is the
>MOST exquisite feeling, which leaves me in a terrible state afterwards -
>crying - from the withdrawl and separation of our souls - but my
>experiences have been totally on a spiritual level, and not so physical as
>those which have been described over the past few days within this group.
>
>I guess I wish that we could bring some light into this discussion.  Maybe
>start discussing how these feelings you are experiencing regarding
>physically feeling the "spirit" move through you has changed you in a
>positive way, and how you have looked deeper into your souls..... I just
>wish that it were leading to a more spiritually aware place - but I can't
>seem to link it in any way to what I am experiencing.....
>
>I guess it has to do with energy moving within our bodies.  Maybe I have a
>different way of viewing the energies moving within my body, and interpret
>it as heavenly.  And putting such labels as "orgasmic" just don't seem to
>fit for me, it just feels wrong.  I far prefer "exquisite", or "elation",
>or "ecstacy".  :)  Now those seem more fitting..... :)
>
>I guess that I am happy that you are all learning to express yourselves,
>and the experiences you are having, but I just wish it were not of a sexual
>nature.  So sorry...
>
>In light and love,
>
>Michelle
>
>
>
>.-
>
>


 
[25] From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Your nature and the nature of this list

It strikes me as almost funny that a listserv of people interested in and
experiencing kundalini, the energy that is supposed to bring about
evolution in our lifetime, seems to be composed of people who are not
willing to put their creative energies into making the list what they want
it to be or believe it should be.  It can serve our individual purposes if
we put our individual energies into it.  I do not mean that we should post
back and forth things like:
		I want this topic discussed more
		I think this topic should not be discussed
		This tone bothers me. Change it.
		Et cetera.

What I mean is that we our posts should reflect our highest desires for
the list and be reflective of our deepest selves, the selves we are
discovering with kundalini.

What's it for, after all?  Keeping separate from our long lost siblings we
have finally found on-line? I hope not.

I recommend that this list is an opportunity to impact spiritual evolution
by consciously bringing our highest selves to it.
  
Watch the list evolve and watch your role in making it evolve.  Not by
trying to change anything, but by Being.

I hope this makes some sense and is received in the spirit in which it was
written.

Sincerely,
Mary