[1]: From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: The Ajna Chakra

Hi : David

Michelle Said:

>We all must stop trying to
>>manipulate God/heaven, and allow this energy to flow in the way which it
>>needs to flow.  I am a firm believer that I have arrived at such a state
>>which I am at by NOT trying and praying for communication and an
>>understanding of what they are trying to teach me
------------------------------------------------
Jim Cook "Go with in."
------------------------------------------------
It looks like you are out numbered David on the issure concerning the Ajna
Charkra.
------------------------------------------------
You said: 
I disagree with your consensus of  "slow down" and  "give to
others" and "let the energy have its way at its own pace", in other words
"forget about opening the ajna in a quick manner".  This is why I disagree,
in brief:
-----------------------------------------------
Every teaching that I know of and especially from Paramahansa Yoganananda
will give you a very strong warning about being distracted while on the path.
 You must have a one pointed mind every step of the way or you will be
distracted by thinking about the Ajna Chakra to raising the kundalini, Etc.
 As Jim says," Go with in" and as Michelle says " We all must stop trying to
manipulate God/heaven."  

It is very clear that by not being distracted all of these side shows will
happen on the path anyway.  They happen just for one reason and that is to
distracte you.  I don't like to quote the bible, but didn't it say something
like follow me and all of these things will be added to you?"  

So again I still must say you are looking in the wrong direction.  What good
is a little show if you lose you way?

As always
Von


 [2]: From: jtracyATNOSPAMhalcyon.com (Jean Tracy)
Subject: Re: spirits

>my own experience and as mentioned in a previous post I just tell the ghost
>to "get the hell out of here right now"!. Then they just leave immediately
>and never come back.  This is the same technique that many people dealing in


I've found the same thing - Mostly tho, that if I have fears - they show up
as scary things -

Sometimes other people leave alot of negative energy around and it can get
translated as evil spirits to the mind or third eye.  A psychic told me of
a technique to 'see them dissolve'  which works well.  For me, filling up
with love (opposite of fear) transforms the apparitions enough to question
what it is they want.  Once that is known - the fears are brought to
consciousness and easier to deal with.

I've never had any trouble doing this (knock on wood) and have been in
pretty dangerous situations with my Shamanic work.

Jean


 [3]: From: Melissa Ann Fornof 
Subject: "Wheels of Light"/past lives

This book I have also read most of.  I never read it cover to cover, but 
topic to topic.  I found it difficult reading and very unorganized by my 
standards.  I am a writer by nature, but her style just did not gel with 
mine.  I like to arrange things by topic; sort of an outline style. 
Bruyere would disperse info on chakras, Kundalini, healing, etc. all over 
the place such that you have to read the whole book just to gain a basic 
understanding of any one of those.  I found it confusing.  Also, there 
was a LOT of history and technical jargon.  This is very beneficial, I 
think, for those seeking a non-religious perspective.  However, for me, 
it was hard reading and disorganized according to my personal view.  At 
the same time, this is the first book that introduced me to chakras and 
Kundalini directly preceding my first K experience.  I know this book 
holds a lot of info, but I would suggest anyone considering buying it 
reading a few pages first to make sure they can understand ok and that 
the method of organization gels with them.

I also feel that my level of understanding things, whether simple or 
complex, increased slowly during my first experience with the K, and has 
gone way down since it practically stopped.  I read most of this book 
only prior to my experience.  Perhaps if I had read it mid-Kundalini, 
when my understanding of things was expanded, I would have had gotten 
more out of it.  It IS a good book, just not my style.  Just thought I'd 
give my critique since someone else did.

OK, now for another question.  I'm sorry for continuing to go off topic, 
but these things are important to me, and I think they ARE related to 
Kundalini, even if they don't look like it from the surface to some.

I have asked the same or similar questions before, but don't remember the 
responses--they didn't seem to click with me.  Perhaps due to my lower 
level of understanding since the lower K level.  However, I feel my 
understanding is increasing again, albeit "millimeters" at a time.

I know I have a lot of baggage to work through myself, but I have also 
heard a lot about past-life baggage.  How would one know if they have 
even HAD past lives, much less any baggage from it/them.  And, once they 
found out, how would one go about getting rid of such baggage?  It's hard 
enough trying to get rid of baggage from THIS lifetime!

For some strange reason, I have always had a strange fascination with 
sailor suits--since I was a very young child.  I have never lived near an 
ocean or a lake, or ever even met a sailor.  My mother has always been 
puzzled by this.  Also, when I was about 5, my family camped out for the 
summer at a remote "lake" in California (more like a large pond) where a 
big rock was planted near the shore.  I would sit for literally hours on 
end--3-6 hrs. at a time, according my mom.  I would pretend the entire 
time I was a sailor on a ship in the ocean, watching the waves (generated 
by two amateur gold-panners on small boats, I learned later on) and 
feeling like I was really moving on this rock; my ship.  I developed this 
fantasy so well that years later, when I was 14, I recalled the 
experience to my mom, saying, "remember when we camped out at that 
abandoned beach and I would sit on MyRock and my "ship" was sailing on 
that ocean?"  She laughed so hard.  I actually remembered it as a beach 
and ocean, rather than a large pond.  Mom often kidded me about being a 
sailor in my past life, because of my unexplained fascination with sailor 
clothing and that experience in California.  Now I take it a little more 
seriously.  

Also, paradoxically, I am afraid of deep water.  In a lake, I am scared 
if I can't see the bottom, or if my feet touch suddenly cold water.  I 
have thought perhaps I was a sailor in a past life who drowned--but then 
I also nearly drowned (as far as I was concerned) in a baby pool a the 
age of 2 though I could swim.  I don't remember this, but my mother told 
me I fell down and couldn't get back up.  After that, she says, it was 
years before I swam again.  So, is this story any real evidence of a past 
life, or just a kid with a wild imagination, a traumatic experience, and 
a wierd quirk (my fascination with sailor attire)?  I'd love to hear 
input on this.  I apologize for the length of this, and again for being 
off topic.  However, I have no one else to ask these questions to that 
are important to me, and I feel they are relevant to Kundalini and my 
life.  If indeed this story suggests a past life, perhaps someone can 
help me shed the baggage leftover from it.  I truly love the water, and 
love to swim.  But my fear keeps me at bay, except in pools, when I know 
the depth and can see the bottom.  Also, I have enough present-life 
baggage to deal with--I'd like to quickly shed any past-life garbage in 
order to deal with it--if indeed past lives do exist.  Thanks in advance 
to everyone.  You are all very helpful to me.

Love to all, Melissa


 [4]: From: kentATNOSPAMgatezone.com (Spark)
Subject: K's and G's

El writes:

>The "heaviness" you felt from the mail list may not have been entirely from
>"toxic" (I would call it "obnoxious") dogma-blustering.  I have been
>following this list since its inception a month ago and discovered that
>whenever anyone posts something on the list that is a direct response to
>something I've said -- especially if there is an emotional charge to their
>response -- I feel an incredible tenfold increase in the gravitational field
>around my body before I have even checked for email!  This happens even when
>the responses are very positive.

  Interesting and creative way of looking at the experience.  I'll have to
experiment and see how it goes.  If this is the case then some of the
posters here must either have found a way to make use of that gravitational
field  ;-).

>My explanation for the heaviness is an electromagnetic overload that builds
>up when I am thrown psychic cords by people radiating mega-energy (i.e., if
>their Kundalini is active).  More than one person focusing on me with this
>much energy really hits hard.  At first I thought I was coming down with
>sudden chronic fatigue!

  And I thought it was just my dilithium crystals needed polishing.  It is
fascinating how many factors any one of us has going on in our lives.
There are so many variables that it takes an open mind and, at times, a
clear focus to determine what *if any* cause and effect relationships we're
dealing with.

  For some reason I'm particularly interested in the acausal relationships
or lack thereof between events, people, and 'things' in our environment.
Part of my bizarre and ongoing training process.  I don't seem to really
trust the appearance of linearity.  I've seen in collapse too often under
internal and external pressure.


  Kent slips off topic in mid-sentence...

  Would you feel comfortable sharing how you work with "auric cleansing?"
I'm always interested in learning new techniques.

>For this reason, I've learned to keep my posts to this group to a minimum
>(thus avoiding drawing attention and excess energies to myself).  Luckily, I
>am able to disengage from the cords/energies through aura cleansing.  I began
>doing spontaneous aura cleansing (on myself, no clientele) about six years
>ago when my Kundalini was at a crescendo.  I never received any training for
>this, but it sure helps sometimes to be able to do it.

  I understand.  I participate in several newsgroups and list servers.  In
some I am a total lurker, while in other's I am an active participant.  I
think it is easier in either direction and most challenging in the middle.
In order for me to get my balance on the surf board of my own
conscioiusness I need a long enough wave.  If I post enough and read the
waves I can get up on the board and experience the Ocean.

>I think that we are sitting on a unbelievably potent group-energetic force
>that eventually will be tapped for distant healings and so forth.  (I
>understand that other Internet groups already do this kind of work, but how
>much more intense would it be if all the participants had active Kundalini?)
> The possibilities are staggering.

  I'm interested in how other newsgroups/listservers are working together,
do you have any further information?  There are as many ways to contribute
positively to the world as there are people and I know I have a lot to
learn about how we *can* work together without just building castles in the
sand (eventually).  It is intriguing.  I think of myself as more of a
Tibetan, Taoist, Sound surfer than a white magick sorta guy, but I do
believe that the more I'm able to find and maintain a high alignment with
the 'spinal' tsunami the more I'm making a positive contribution to the
planetary clubhouse.  (just don't get caught in any movie theatres...;-)




------------------

  This afternoon after reading El's message, I went into contemplation and
found myself out of my body next to a beautiful lake that was a part of my
childhood.  It's a lake that is 22+ miles long, clear, magnificent.  I was
sitting out on some large rocks with two other people, one on each side of
me 
water.  I saw that it was a snake that looked dead.  I stood up to see
better and noticed it was alive and starting to swim away.  I walked back
to the shore and was looking for some small stones to throw out toward the
snake because I wanted to 'communicate/interact' with it and see if it
would swim my way.  When I looked up it was swiming my way without having
to do anything.  I could see that it was looking stronger and that it was
also shaped a little like an eel.  It was specialized for swimming in the
waters...  It was quite beautiful and I was anticipating it coming ashore
with a little aprehension as well as excitement.



putting on my
gravitational boots,

kent

     Private Communication          GateZone Communications
   ___________________________
         Internet, network, database tools, and the
    training to make them work for you and your organization.
   ___________________________
   Kent Livingston      kentATNOSPAMgatezone.com         512.280.4888


 [5]: From: kentATNOSPAMgatezone.com (Spark)
Subject: Re: Kundalini an ocean?

Von enumerated:
>
>1. Meditate on nothing and receive nothing.

    No-thing is also what some people call that which comes before (and
after) *things*.

>2. By concentration which then turns into meditation.  Not every one can
>meditate.  It takes practice.

    I believe *anyone* can 'meditate' or 'contemplate' it is mostly a
matter of relaxing and learning to love.

>3. Mind is called,"Maya" and by meditation that will become clear to you.

    Hmmmmmm....

>4. You created it.

    I thought it was Frank Zappa what a dissappointment.

>5. kundalini is a creative energy that came down from the unmanifested and
>went to sleep in the base of the spine.  Through purification it will return
>back up though the charkras to which it came.

    Or it might take the nonlinear route...  Just when you think you've got
it all neatly defined, described, mapped out it will kick you in the base
of the spine (also known as  your ass ) and you will learn something
new.

>6. As you are this one consciousness already.  Nothing happens on it's return
>except you wake up and  then see that this life you thought was real was a
>dream.( Maya)

    What an opportunity this life is.  I believe that "this life" is quite
'real' enough to be very useful in shedding the accumulation of universal
bullshit.

>7. On a deeper sense everything is love and is only one, but for conversation
>Kundalini is not your spirit.

    I like this love part, just sort of *clicks* into place, no?

>8. We are all ghosts or spirts trapped in a body.

   Or.... we're in loving and symbiotic relationship with these wonderous
and marvelous biodegradable space suits that enable us to to
experience/learn amazing things.  Besides you can always park the body for
a while  if you need to. (make sure it's parked legally  so it doesn't get
towed/toed).

  The body is a pretty fine instrument, I don't see it as a trap. Just an
instrument or maybe a paint brush....


kentspark

     Private Communication          GateZone Communications
   ___________________________
         Internet, network, database tools, and the
    training to make them work for you and your organization.
   ___________________________
   Kent Livingston      kentATNOSPAMgatezone.com         512.443.8855


 [6]: From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Re: Assorted comments

My concern of the moment is that often when the energies are pulsing
through me they set up vibrations in my immediate surroundings as well.
Lamps and plants and walls will vibrate.  Others can see this as well.
Does anyone else experience this?  Has anyone read about it?  Have any
intuition about it?  I have not heard others mention it nor have I read
about it anyplace but it is fairly common with me. Thank you all for being
here and for being open and honest about your experiences and feelings.

Mary


 [7]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Clarification

Niles,
I can see why you would be reacting this way since you weren't a part of the
listings form the beginning. I was asked not to talk directly to people about
just whatever comes to me, I have done that out of respect for others who
have problems with certain words, etc. I don't believe the group should be
having posts outside of it either, because it should be able to be wide open.
But. I for one, don't manipulate the spirit as it comes to me, so in order
for me to be able to write what comes to me spontanteously, either I
participate or don't. I can't not say what is coming to me period. So, I
guess this is where the original thing came up. It goes far deeper then what
you have suggested. Gloria


 [8]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Niles

Niles,
I certainly hope you don't leave the list, what's this everything has to
agree in order to be of worth. Hang in there, it is just a part of the
spiritual dance, wait for ten minutes it will change. Isn't this how the
illsuion works?? Gloria


 [9]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Kundalini List

Kundalini is a challenge for everyone, and certainly for those disabled
people with other challenges on top. It will be interesting talking to you
about this. Gloria


[10]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: "Wheels of Light"/past lives

Melissa,
This is the kind of remembering that can easily be explored though your
dreams. Let the inquiry go out to your spirit/soul, and simply observe
yourself and remember your dreams. You will eventually move through the whole
experience, and since you have move into the observation position, it will be
made clear what you are remembering. Gloria


[11]: From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Re: "Wheels of Light"/past lives

> This book I have also read most of.  I never read it cover to cover, but
> topic to topic.  I found it difficult reading and very unorganized by my
> standards.

I agree with Melissa here.  When the process was just begining for me, I
picked up this book thinking it was Wheels of Life by Anodea Judith.  I read
it cover to cover, and was perplexed.  Did I miss something?  It read to me
like the great beginnings of a book - but with 9/10ths of it forgotten to be
included by the publisher.

Wheels of Life on the other hand was extremely helpful to me.  I wouldn't
hesitate to recommend it if anyone is looking for a good background text
on the chakras - in a style that is approachable for Westerners.  She doesn't
have too many pictures - but the writing style is clear and well organised.

Richard
--
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com     http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
.........................................................................
...
Ones destination is never a place but rather a new way of
looking at things.
-Henry Miller


[12]: From: cmwithATNOSPAMcris.com (Michelle Withers)
Subject: Re: "Wheels of Light"/past lives

Dear Melissa,

Michelle here.  I found your letter delightful  :)  I will comment only on
your questions about past lives.

In my experience any feelings I have felt which I thought were past life
connected have turned out to be just that.  Your imagination is your best
friend, and never discount it - if you can, and I KNOW how bizzare the
imagination can be, it's just our consious mind which doesn't believe the
crazy things our imagination tells us about ourselves.

Your past life memories will all come to the forefront of your mind slowly
- just like they are for you now.  And it is wonderful to hear you
answering many of your own questions within your letter :)  You KNOW the
answers - you just can't believe it!!

My past life memories all started as feelings of being a gypsy - and
feeling the jewelry around my wrists, and ankles.  I started wearing more
jewelry, and it made the memories all start coming more easily.  I started
craving to have crystals, and rocks around me - and SWEAR I could feel
intense energies, and even started having relationships with certain rocks
which I saw clear visions within.

This was all part of my abandonment to heaven - and embracing anything and
everything which felt *right* for me.  The visions still come to me, and I
don't need the crystals to talk to heaven - but it was a memory of being a
mystic, which helped me on this path.

I have had memories of being many other people, and all have come the same
slow knowing sort of way as you have described.

As far as being scared of water because you fell in a pool when you were a
baby - I offer that my children have been in drowning situations SO many
times with me watching them in the pool, and them panicing, me racing and
getting them - but none the less, the kids were VERY scared from the
experience.  I have never come across a child who wouldn't go back into the
water almost immediately after an experience like that.  The benefit to a
child - regarding playing in the pool/verses not playing in the pool, even
a little child, far outweighs the experience of falling on their face, or
not being able to breath for 30 seconds.  You probably have a deeper fear
of water which has been carried over from a past life - much like phobias
being carried over from past lives (my belief system - please no hate
mail).

I sense that you are right on the mark with your experiences - let it flow,
and allow yourself to consider other aspects of WHO you are, and the WHY's
of things you do.  For instance.....

I am constantly shifting dirt and rocks around in my backyard.  I am a
fairly small woman - 5'1", and amazingly strong for such a short woman, and
I am constantly building things, and rock gardens, terraces - just shifting
things around for no particular reason other than letting my imagination
*go*.  I realized one day while I was digging (5 hours later) that I had
been some sort of earth shifter in Egypt, and that I had been perfectly
happy doing this trade because it allowed me to *connect* much as I was
doing now, when I create things - or mindlessly put myself to work like
that.

You will find experience within experience if you just allow yourself to
believe that YOU are teaching yourself about WHO you are.

You also asked about how to cleanse past life crap.  I offer that this will
happen in time, but ask for the release often when you pray/meditate.  Ask
to have it released without remembering - unless it is something you need
to remember to sort out a past life problem (I haven't run into that, but
have heard of it).  My past life crap was released instantaniously one
afternoon without me having to witness what exactly the *crap* was, but I
felt it - and I suppose that was enough.

I hope I have offered some suggestions which will shed some light on this
subject.  Keep up the good work  :)

In light and love,

Michelle


[13]: From: CKRESSATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject:  re: K's and G's

Kent,

I can't explain how to do aura clearing -- my body and Kundalini know how.

You realize, of course, that insisting upon no boundaries is in itself
placing boundaries?  I have a strong Jupiter so I understand the joys of
infinite expansion, but I've gotten myself in trouble with it too many times.
 I'm learning about discernment and respecting my own limitations these days.
 As I said, I have to ration my posts to the group -- following up on your
reply to my fan mail was pushing it for me, and this is pushing it harder.  I
am going to retire for awhile after this.

I am not much up for however friendly sparring matches at the moment.  I can
see I had the public jab to my psychic-babble coming -- I did take a bit too
much satisfaction in your dancing sharp-witted circles around the rote
blathering of spiritual "TRUTHS." (I don't have the gizmo to retrieve text
excerpts from past posts, so some of you may have no idea what I'm talking
about here.  Actually, that's probably just as well...)

While I basically agree with you that existence is an incredibly complex (and
paradoxically simple) interplay of myriad forces, I've learned that my
particular "incarnate terminal point," while fully unique, is also
particularly attuned to collective experiences, so that often my personal and
seemingly idiosyncratic ways of interpreting and working with certain
patterns, energetics, relationships, etc., speaks directly to a surprising
number of people.

I sometimes have a gift for articulating things in a way that makes sense and
helps others listen more deeply to their own "lotusheart," as you say.  This
is why I will put myself on the firing line with my little philosophies and
observations once in awhile.  Other people are often served positively by it.
 Of course, like everyone else, sometimes I simply make an ass of myself or
wind up feeling like a freak in a circus sideshow.  It's the risk anyone
takes when standing alone.

Also, I think because of my writing skill I may appear to be stronger than I
am.  For that matter, for most of my life, I thought I was supposed to be
stronger than I am because people expected it of me.  Honoring my own
fragility without apology to *myself* or anyone else has been a big lesson
Kundalini has brought to me.  This is not about asking for sympathy from
others; I don't need that.  (Empathy is something else again, and I welcome
it.)

What I need is to be my own best friend, which is proving to be the most
challenging and rewarding relationship of my life.  I suspect this is true
for us all.

Love,
El