Date: Mon, 17 Jun kundalini-l-d Digest	Volume 96 : Issue 15 
 [1]: From: IAMBABACHUATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: love, medicine and kudalini

Hello to all.
First I want to thank everyone in this dialogue for your conversation. I
feel a little nervous about speaking up on the line.
My first experiences with the kundalini were in childhood. Since then I
have had many phenomena, sometimes dramatic, sometimes illness,
sometimes in synchronicites. My feeling is forming now that most of the
time the negative phenomena happened when there was some kind of
resistance in me. A closing down or contracting. I have found it
difficult to believe that love could be my teacher and that I am worthy
of her blessings. The fear or anticipation of pain being part of
learning has filled me with trembling many times. Then the fear somehow
set it up so that the love could not come through me with out some kind
of symptom, or electrical display, or rash, or what ever. As I learn and
study, everything seems to get so much easier and lighter. I still short
things out from time to time, but it's not so dramatic as it used to be.
When my thoughts get real wide sometimes I think that fear has been our
teacher for too long. That generations of learning from fear and guilt
and shame are being replaced. Today in my meditation the words "Love is
the only teacher" came through. It was a very sweet moment. Thank you
for being a community where I can share these insights and experiences I
have a few thoughts on homeopathy, and Bill and who ever is fatigued
with this conversation please delete. sometimes people prove homeopathic
remedies. Very sensitive people will react with an over dose reaction to
a homeopathic dose. I am one of those fortunate? people who can prove a
remedy now and again. What heals us is part of the great mysteries.  We
are so much more than our dense physical bodies. I don't know what level
homeopathy works with exactly. Perhaps it becomes a manifestation of
meditation or intention. Any way I am stumbling about trying to say that
I don't understand how it works. But  I know it can work. Remedies have
been used for generations on all ages of people. That is not to say that
all of what is being sold out there is valid medicine. Since we are all
going through such unique phases in our growth what works for one may
not work for another. Or even have the same effect from time to time.

my best to all
baba


 [2]: From: Carlo Izzo 
Subject: homeopathy, etc.

>  Patti wrote:
> On homeopathy: 
> Carlo, I understand and share some of your skepticism. I live with doctors.
> Still, if I have looked at a person who has 2 eyes and seen a third one pop
> out, and move into the center of his forehead. Twice!

	What do you exactly mean?
> 
> So after things like this, the stories we hear on this list, (pretty
> amazing, don't you think) 

	Yes, I think so, and I have seen it happening to Zana, and I am
	amazed.

> and my own interesting other things happening to
> me, I find a part of my mind always open to things--like the
> homeopathy--that are beyond rational sense. In fact, the older I get, the
> more I feel anb sense all sorts of things that cannot be explained by reason
> alone.

	If I see a third eye pop out, and move into the center of somebody's
	forehead, I believe it. But this doesn't mean that I believe in 
	flying donkeys: I have to see one first.

	Ciao,   Carlo


 [3]: From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Web Site of Interest:  Love Letters to the World

Dear Listmembers,

This was sent to me, and might be of interest to some or all on the
kundalini list.  

Richard

------- FORWARD, Original message follows -------

Date: Sunday, 16-Jun-96 04:53 PM

From: Editorial & Volunteer Staff \ Internet:    (friendsATNOSPAMscruznet.com)
To:   Richard Satin            \ Internet:    (libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com)

Subject: Love Letters to the World

Dear Richard, 

This very moment, there are people, all over the world who need hear 
words of kindness and support. People in Russia, Africa, Bosnia, India, 
Europe, China, the Americas, the Middle East, people everywhere. Still 
others may be your friends, your family, your colleagues or 
acquaintances. Some may be people you have not seen for years, and 
yes, perhaps some you have even thought of as your enemies or 
adversaries. And then there are the billions of people all over the 
world, each one living, feeling, and breathing, just as you are this very 
instant, who you may never see face-to-face, but about whom you may 
think and care from time to time. This does not require money, and in a 
sense, it's not even about words. It's about the compassion and 
understanding behind the words, which exists in all human beings, yet 
rarely gets expressed. Never before has there been such a massive 
opportunity to reach out with a hand of friendship, of forgiveness, 
reconciliation and healing, of universal and unconditional love. 

So exactly what is this all about?

21st Century Renaissance (http://www.dawn21.com), a new Web 
journal dedicated to the happiness, peace and freedom from suffering 
of all beings everywhere, is sponsoring a project entitled "Love 
Letters to the World," offering virtually anyone and everyone an 
opportunity to help heal the world by writing to people they care 
about, often in cases where it would be difficult or impossible to 
locate the recipient. All letters that are genuinely caring will be 
published, unedited, where those to whom they are addressed can find 
them. This is particularly timely in that we have just been invited to 
create a "21st Century Renaissance" category for the WWW Virtual 
Library (founded by Tim Berners-Lee, one of the co-inventers of the 
Web), one of Cyberspace's most popular browsing rooms. "Love Letters 
to the World" will be one of the central features of that section, also.

We also invite you to visit our journal and explore our pages and 
articles, including:

*Articles, Features and Retreats with our own deeply beloved 
spiritual advisor and friend, Scott Morrison 
(http://www.scruznet.com/~friends/21CR.html)
*References to the works of other 20th Century mystics, sages, 
scientists, Zen masters and philosophers, including Gangaji, Thich 
Nhat Hanh, David Bohm, Toni Packer, Jiddu Krishnamurti, Joanna Macy, 
George Gurdjieff, the Dalai Lama, Papaji, Achaan Chah, Suzuki Roshi, 
Katagiri Roshi, Ramana Maharshi, Buckminister Fuller, Daniel Goleman, 
and Ken Wilber    
*DNA Music by composer and National Public Radio commentator Susan 
Alexjander
*In the Spirit by Interfaith Seminary's Aaron Zerah
*A Declaration of The Independence of Cyberspace by John Perry 
Barlow, Internet Pioneer and Electronic Frontiers Foundation guiding 
spirit
*Commentaries on the Real World
*Political Therapy
*Love, Sex, Honesty, and Wisdom
*The ALL and EVERYTHING Directories
*This Precious Earth
*The Passionate Livelihood: Work as an Expression of Creativity, Love 
and Wisdom
*Science and Mysticism
*Intimate and Sacred Poetry

Next month's new features will include:

*Lovin'Ways (In Celebration of Unconditional Affection and 
Compassion) a dialogue between Dominique Van Zandt, a lesbian who 
also loves men, and Scott Morrison, an American Bodhisattva who 
simply loves everyone.
*One Breath at a Time (Spiritual Awakening, especially for People in 
Recovery)
*Cooperative Free Enterprise (How all of us can collaborate, feed and 
support each other on the Web as well as in the world at large)

With one of the most loyal and fastest growing followings on the Web, 
we are currently registering thousands of visits a day, and doubling in 
size every 4-7 weeks. If you are interested in taking advantage of our 
growing popularity and increasing your own exposure, please check out 
our advertising page, 
http://www.scruznet.com/~friends/HelpLinks.html (Deadline on 
special rates is Monday, June 31, 1996. You may e-mail space 
reservations.)  

Finally, please add us to your mailing list to keep us informed of 
coming activities. If there is any other way we can be of assistance to 
you, please feel free to write or call. Good luck to you! We sincerely 
hope this serves you well!

In lovingkindness,
Jodi McLaughlin
Special Projects Director


------- FORWARD, End of original message -------


--
==== libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com ==== http://www.execpc.com/~libra/ ====
Death is patiently making my mask as I sleep.  Each morning I 
awake to discover in the corners of my eyes the small tears
of his wax.
-Philip Dow


 [4]: From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: In need of prayers from all, Help!

Help I needc prayers. My dog, Brownie, who is 14 years old, is very sick. 
He's in terrible pain. I fear I may have to have him put to sleep. I have 
received shaktipat  and am praying for him too. If anyone would please 
remember my dog, Brownie in their prayers or could give me any healing 
advice I will be eternally grateful. Mantras, etc.

Sincerely,
Mark Rivera


 [5]: From: CKRESSATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Strange skin excretions

On June 15, Alex Goolsby mentioned he had a friend whose skin exuded a blue
substance while in deep meditation.  I have no idea what it was, but I wonder
if there is some esoteric connection to Krishna and other blue-skinned
deities.  Many mythological stories allude to "secret" spiritual processes.
 Any ideas about this?

I know of a woman with risen Kundalini whose skin -- over her entire body --
exuded a blackish substance for several weeks.  She said it had the texture
of cobwebs and could be easily rubbed off.

El


 [6]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: k-volcanoes and heart centers

Karol Ann,
HI, back problems are probably one of the most frequent experiences with
kundalini. With all that energy moving in the subtle body it does effect the
spine. I've learned through experience certain things that help relieve the
condition. Remember I've had 3 back surgeries, and I'm in better shape now
then I was in my 20's and 30's. 

First sit straight even in your relaxing time. This keeps your energy moving
up. Then come with a form of exercise that is your own.  I think it is
important to find that from within because your body will tell you what you
can and can not do. I needed something to increase my heart beat and make the
back muscles stronger. It works wonders. The other things to observe is a
particular thought or emotion is being processed. For instance material
worries or desires causes a lower back pain.  Just as soon as you recognize
the thought or emotion, fear or anxiety, it will go. AT least that has been
my experience, and working with the people here it has always manifested in
the same way. Gloria


 [7]: From: Iver Juster 
Subject: Man with third eye

Carlo:

We have here in the west an interesting model, called western medicine.
There is no place for homeopathy here, it doesn't make sense. But if you
study accuppuncture, it does not make sense either by western standards.
Even their concept of things like a "liver" is not a liver like we know it,
but some sort of system of meridians, etc. So if you believe what you see,
fine. If you believe what others report as their experience, then homeopathy
must start sounding more intriguing, yes? Perhaps you, like me, wind up on
the fence? I feel I have an open mind, willing to try things for myself that
have worked for others. 
 .............

As for the man with the  three  eyes, I looked into this man's eyes once, no
twice, while taking a cross-country hike with him up in the mountains. I was
alone at a hot springs natural resort. I had asked him to join me (for
safety reasons) on a hike.
 
We hiked and laughed and played. He had a long white beard. (He turned out
to be a siddha yoga follower). After hours of hiking, while taking a rest,
he looked me in the eyes, at my request, (even demand, for at first he
hesistated strongly.)  That is when I saw the 3rd eye appear. Speechless, I
asked him to do it again. I saw it come right out of his left eye and into
the middle of his forehead. Stunned, I asked if he had a message for me. (My
mind was blown now-- I was  a money manager at this point in my life, and a
pretty conservative person.) I was not a believer in the weird part of life.

"Yes" he said.   ............................"There is no message. That is
the message. Enjoy life, it is a gift. The light that Jesus and others
carried has never gone out. That would not have been a loving thing to do,
let the light go out, so the light has been kept alive. Enjoy your every
moment of this precious gift of life. You owe nothing, just live fully." I
enjoyed the message but didn't think a whole lot about this incident
afterwards. A year and a half later, I had the spontaneous, full blown
awakening.

I remembered this event only several years later. Once I figured out that I
had had a k-awakening, people were curious as to how. I had no idea, none,
until, I remembered this incident. To this day I suspect I received
shaktipat. (Some "safe" hike, huh?)! 


 [8]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: love, medicine and kudalini

Thanks, baba. Gloria


 [9]: From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Anon: Re: Strange skin excretions

Following is a post from a list member who wishes to remain anonymous.  

(If any of you ever wish to post, but are a bit hesitant, this may be an
option for you.  Simply send me your post, indicating this and I will
forward. -RAS)

Dear Richard,

Richard, my guru told me not to mention my state to anyone. I would be
grateful if you could please post the following on my behalf without
mentioning my name and my email address (Its non-controversial, I hope!
Otherwise, please don't bother.).

>On June 15, Alex Goolsby mentioned he had a friend whose skin exuded a blue
>substance while in deep meditation.  I have no idea what it was, but I
wonder
>if there is some esoteric connection to Krishna and other blue-skinned
>deities.  Many mythological stories allude to "secret" spiritual processes.
> Any ideas about this?

You are probably right. One of Shiva's 1008 names is niilakanTha
(niila = blue, kanTha = neck). During the churning of the ocean
(=saagara manthan, saagara = ocean & manthana = churning), which is
probably an allegorical myth pertaining to the rising of the K,
there came a vessel (I think) full of poison (vishha) and this was going
to poison the three worlds (cf 3 naadis for the rising of kundalinii
shaktii!). Then Shiva undertook to drink it as he is 'out of Time'. The
poison made his throat look blue, hence the name niilakanTha.

Kaalii maataa is dark blue/dark. Kaali means dark as well as the Mistress 
controlling Time. There are 7 (!)forms of Kaalii. 

Hope this helps. 

--
==== libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com ==== http://www.execpc.com/~libra/ ====
Beauty is one of the rare things that do not lead to doubt
of God.
-Jean Anouilh


[10]: From: IAMBABACHUATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: In need of prayers from all, Help!

many prayers for both of you.


[11]: From: Jai1008ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: hey Richard

Forgive me for being to lazy to look up you personal address--I have a
formatting question about our list--could it be done in such a way that
rather than posts coming identified as Kundalinin-l only they could also have
the name (computer name) of the sender, either in the header or when it
actually show up in my mail box (probably the former). It seems this
sometimes occurs, and I can tell who wrote what by looking at the header, but
sometimes it doesn't (?or maybe I am just out of it and missing it?). For
those of us who do not like to address and sign all/each of our remarks with
a name, it would be much easier.


[12]: From: Jai1008ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: lip wierdness

Karole Ann (sp?)--I get a strange lip twitch as well. When I am very relaxed
upon entering an altered state of mind/body, maybe dropping down into theta
or below, my lip curls. It is very animal feeling--like a snarl, the
bottom/top part of my lip, on the right side of my mouth, snarls, curls, and
occasionally even goes numb while doing so, or drips saliva....it's kind of
odd, but it feels really good to the rest of me when it happens.


[13]: From: Jai1008ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: migraines etc.

The universe is my source and my supply--maybe the water broker needs it more
than I? i know it will be replaced.


 
[14]: From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Re: hey Richard

> could it be done in such a way that
> rather than posts coming identified as Kundalinin-l only they could also
have
> the name (computer name) of the sender

Dear Jennifer,

It should be that the posts you receive from the list have the sender in the
header. (As the from: line).  It may be that your mailreader is filtering
the information out, thinking that the latest information is the most
important.  If you send me examples of posts you have received which seem to
be formatted differently, I'll take a look and try to determine what's going
on.

If anyone else has noticed anything inconsistent regarding headers, please
let me know (off line).

Thanks,
Richard
--
  
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com     http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
............................................................................
Don't knock on Death's door. Just ring the bell and run. He hates
that.


[15]: From: Carlo Izzo 
Subject: Man with third eye

> 
> Carlo:
> 
> We have here in the west an interesting model, called western medicine.

	It is called "medicine". And it works very well...
	It is based on the principle of repeating an experiment: you
	do so and so, and it happens again. It is not a matter of opinion.
	All our life, consciousness, reality, is based on a consistent
	possibility of repeating something. Without repetition even
	memory itself wouldn't be possible. To remember things, I mean.
	The phone wouldn't work, the plane wouldn't fly, our legs
	wouldn't walk, kundalini wouldn't rise.

> There is no place for homeopathy here, it doesn't make sense. But if you
> study accuppuncture, it does not make sense either by western standards.

	They are not "western" standards. They are universal standards.
	All we are asking is to be able to repeat something. To reproduce
	it. To see that we can do it again. Who needs something that can
	be done just once - maybe? Who needs a phone that works just once 
	per year - at a random day? This is not just a mere convention:
	homeopathy has been tested - and it didn't work beyond the placebo
	effect. Agopuncture has been tested - and it didn't work as well.
	Therefore - such things don't work. It's as simple as that.

> Even their concept of things like a "liver" is not a liver like we know it,
> but some sort of system of meridians, etc. So if you believe what you see,
> fine. If you believe what others report as their experience, then homeopathy
> must start sounding more intriguing, yes? 

	It doesn't matter at all how it sounds - it matters that it works.
	If homeophaty worked, it would be part of the "western" medicine.
	There is no physician who is against something that works. It is
	not necessary to understand - it is just necessary that it works:
	nobody knows why aspirin works - but it works, it has been tested
	in serious double blind experiments, and it works well beyond the
	placebo effect. Therefore, aspirin is not a hoax.

> Perhaps you, like me, wind up on
> the fence? I feel I have an open mind, willing to try things for myself that
> have worked for others. 

	I think I have an open mind. This doesn't mean that I swallow
	anything I am told about.
>  .............
> 
> As for the man with the  three  eyes, I looked into this man's eyes once, no
> twice, while taking a cross-country hike with him up in the mountains. I was
> alone at a hot springs natural resort. I had asked him to join me (for
> safety reasons) on a hike.
>  
> We hiked and laughed and played. He had a long white beard. (He turned out
> to be a siddha yoga follower). After hours of hiking, while taking a rest,
> he looked me in the eyes, at my request, (even demand, for at first he
> hesistated strongly.)  That is when I saw the 3rd eye appear. Speechless, I
> asked him to do it again. I saw it come right out of his left eye and into
> the middle of his forehead. Stunned, I asked if he had a message for me. (My
> mind was blown now-- I was  a money manager at this point in my life, and a
> pretty conservative person.) I was not a believer in the weird part of life.
> 
> "Yes" he said.   ............................"There is no message. That is
> the message. Enjoy life, it is a gift. The light that Jesus and others
> carried has never gone out. That would not have been a loving thing to do,
> let the light go out, so the light has been kept alive. Enjoy your every
> moment of this precious gift of life. You owe nothing, just live fully." I
> enjoyed the message but didn't think a whole lot about this incident
> afterwards. A year and a half later, I had the spontaneous, full blown
> awakening.
> 
> I remembered this event only several years later. Once I figured out that I
> had had a k-awakening, people were curious as to how. I had no idea, none,
> until, I remembered this incident. To this day I suspect I received
> shaktipat. (Some "safe" hike, huh?)! 
> 
	This is very interesting. I don't know what to say...

	Ciao,   Carlo


[16]: From: jtracyATNOSPAMhalcyon.com (Jean Tracy)
Subject: Re: migraines etc.

In responds to Iver:
>
>I am going to have to see a neurologist in order to keep receiving the
>medication, etc. I am wondering, what on earth do I tell him  or her? I am a
>little nervous about having my health record look weird, or being considered
>a weirdo.
>

You know, this is a major problem.  At the KRN conference, two years ago?,
they announced that Kundalini was in the new DMR-IV - a thick book that
therapists and doctors use to diagnose patients.  Many doctors do not know
what it is and prescribe drugs to make it go away.

I stuck to alternative health practitioners - like accupuncture and
homeopathy because they always knew of what I was talking about.


[17]: From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Homeopathy...

Dear Carlo and everyone else,

I didn't want to break in here, but I should say that homeopathy has a long 
(and respected, at least in some quarters) heritage going back before 1900. 
It is repeatable, and hence is respected by at least some honest scientists
here in the US.   Classically trained physicians have written books about it
(e.g. Mendelsohn and others).

That's not to say that the actual medicine contains any currently traceable
remnants of the original substance.  It does not.  This is what seems to
cause so much commotion.  

Interestingly, in the early years of this century both homeopathy and
allopathy were strongly represented.  The homeopaths were actually more
successful materially and in popularity with the public.  In an effort to
drive them out of business, the allopaths banded together and formed the AMA
- which did everything it could to brand homeopathy quackery.  The AMA
wasted no time in closing the homeopathic medical schools, and establishing
itself as the authority in terms of what was "acceptable" medical practice. 


In many developing countries (which cannot afford western medicine),
homeopathy has a long successful track record.  

All of these things are provable, and in the public domain.  

Have we beaten this poor old horse to death yet?

Richard 

--
  
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com     http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
............................................................................
One’s destination is never a place but rather a new way of 
looking at things.
-Henry Miller


[18]: From: pettyATNOSPAMjpp-ws.sharpwa.com (John Petty)
Subject: re: Man with third eye

Damn!  This is something!

> We hiked and laughed and played. He had a long white beard. (He turned out
> to be a siddha yoga follower). After hours of hiking, while taking a rest,
> he looked me in the eyes, at my request, (even demand, for at first he
> hesistated strongly.)  That is when I saw the 3rd eye appear. Speechless, I
> asked him to do it again. I saw it come right out of his left eye and into
> the middle of his forehead. Stunned, I asked if he had a message for me. (My
> mind was blown now-- I was  a money manager at this point in my life, and a
> pretty conservative person.) I was not a believer in the weird part of life.
 
After reading this I just have to share what happened to me in a dream...
or was it a vision??  

-----
I'm sitting in this resturaunt waiting for a pizza to be cooked.   It's
the middle of the night, yet the place has lots of customers.  A man sits
down at my table with a woman and child and starts repeating over and over,
"Jimmy crack corn and I don't care".  I think that there must be something
mentally wrong with him.  He seems harmless so I stay put.  A bum/vagrant
walks by the table and stops to look at me.  I smile, then he says, "It's
a sad drizzly day isn't it?"  (I'd never heard that phrase used about the
weather before?).. and then he said a few other things to me.  Suddenly, I
realize that he's clairvoyant and is reading me.

Then, as I looked at him a beautiful eye appeared in the middle of his
forehead.  My body began to hiss/ring at a very high pitch and I turned
away.  When I looked back the eye was gone, but reappeared within a few
seconds.  My body once again began to ring with intense energy and every-
thing went blank .. or was it white.  I woke up in bed gasping and moaning
from the intensity.
----

Like the first paragraph, I watched as the third eye came out of the eye
on the left side of his face (his right eye) and moved to the center of
his forehead.  It was pure and beautiful to look at... and much larger
than our physical eyes, I'd say about 2 1/2 to 3 inches wide.

Since that time my ears and body have continued to ring at the same
frequency.  There seem to be two of them.  One that is more audible and
the other that is more like a high pitched hiss that is centered in the
spine and head.

When I worked up the courage to tell my Jungian analyst about this I
thought that he was going to fall out of his chair.  Then he asked,
"Do you know what the next line of "Jimmy Crack Corn" is?"  I stopped
and searched in vain and finally replied, "No."  He said, the next line
of the song is:

	"My master's gone away."

When he said that, _I_ almost fell out of my chair.

I'd never heard of Shaktipat until last week when I read about it in a book,
but I'd be willing to bet...   What else could explain it?

John


[19]: From: "Debee L. Thomas" 
To: Richard Satin 
Subject: Re: Homeopathy...

> All of these things are provable, and in the public domain.  
> 
> Have we beaten this poor old horse to death yet?

One last comment on the Homeopathy issue please?  (ducking)

For those interested in Homeopathy, there is a mail list just like this 
you can join and become very active in posting on this very subject at:

homeopathy-requestATNOSPAMlyghtforce.com 

and in the first line of your message type the following:

JOIN homeopathy internetATNOSPAMaddress

Blessed Be

Debee