[1]: From: Mary Knapp
Subject: Re: Kundalini Books and some questions

On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, Richard Satin wrote:

> Mary Knapp wrote:
> (re: Shared Transformation newsletter)
> > I have read every book I can get that discusses kundalini but your reports
> > from those everyday people dealing with the same energies that I am have
> > been particularly comforting.  I read every back issue and was rewarded by
> > each and every one of them.  Thank you so much for your service to us all.
> 
> Dear Mary and fellow list members, 
> 
> I would underline these comments about the Shared Transformation newsletter.
>  Are there any books which you have found particularly helpful OR misleading
> ?  Would you consider putting some of your thoughts together and submitting
> them to me or to the list?  As time goes on, I'll continue to collect these
> and to add full book reviews for a web page. (http://www.execpc.
> com/~libra/booklist.html)  
> 
> Richard
> 

Richard and Everyone,

I love books and writing book reviews.  A list of books I've loved and
annotations for them is my usual Christmas gift to friends.  However in my
current state of mind it would be difficult to report on those kundalini
books I have already read.  I have only been interested in this subject
for about 8 months.  At first I was so starved for material I was reading
mostly what the local college library could provide.  Those books were
full of incomprehensible words and the authors viewed the phenonmena as
extremely esoteric and only approachable via academic gobbledegook.  The
local books stores yielded mostly How-To's which were not quite what I
needed.  Then I discovered the local Theosophical library in Halcyon
California and found a beautiful book by George Arundale, now out of print
unfortunately.  I believe it may have been called simply Kundalini, or
maybe Serpent Fire. Alas, I had to return it.  I was loath to do so but my
integrity would not let me keep it. I was too scattered and remorseful at
the time to record its name.

I had the same extreme attachment to a book by Alan Arkin, also out of
print unfortunately, that was mentioned in the Shared Transformation
newsletter. I do not remember the name. Same problems parting with it.That
one I found through our large public library's three county catalog. The
author's reliance on a guru was the only thing off-putting about it. 

Has anyone else developed such attachments?  I used to love change, but
now I seem to enjoy so many things so much I can't bear to let them go.
I'll even feel that way at the end of a good meal sometimes.  I do
continue to make transitions easily but seem to get so very hooked into
the present that I do not like moving away from it.

The Gopi Krishna book presented some problems for me.  His ego seemed
everywhere and there was precious little of the kind of information I
wanted and it was so scattered throughout the text.  I was put off by what
I considered a sexist attitude as well.  His wife did not sound like a
comfort so much as a slave.  And, his good works with regard to arranging
marriages struck me as meddlesome and sexist as well.  Different culture,
differt time, of course.  It perhaps should not have bothered me. I
thought he was awfully melodramatic, too.  At that point I had experienced
no pain with my awakening and was looking for information and experiences
I could relate to, and he just wasn't it. He thought he was so special and
he seemed to withhold information because of it.   Again, I express my
gratitude for Shared Transformations for the best information and easy to
relate to narratives.

Biographies of Krishnamurti were both scary (he seemed to suffer so and so
privately) and comforting.  He became such a peaceful Light but could be
casually critical of those he loved.  I have had That experience. 

The best booklist I have found on Kundalini was at the on-line bookstore
at amazon.com.  They will try to get publishers out of stock books in a
few weeks time.  Does anyone know of an out-of-print source on the web?

What seems to work best for me is alternating my spiritual reading with
novels and the like.  The energy gets too intense if I persue the
spiritual exclusively.  I also use broadcast television to tone down the
energies.  Video tapes do not work as well.  Has anyone else found that to
be true?  And as others have mentioned - interactive Internet really
charges me up - particularly this list.  How long has it been up and
going? I seem to have missed some things and yet there are so many
introductions.  I am grateful for them.  How about suggestions for uniform
subject headings - for archival purposes?  That could be of great benefit
to others if the list is new.  It might keep me from saving nearly every
post as well!! =-]

I do read voraciously but I borrow more books than I buy and those I buy I
tend to pass along to others quickly.  From now on I will try to keep
accurate records of the books I read that relate to our concerns and
report on them before they become mere impressions. 

I could go on and on but I'll just say:

Blessed Be,
Mary


 [2]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Good Advice

I have got letters from two people asking me to continue to post, what do you
want? Gloria 


 
 [3]: From: vetfindATNOSPAMinteraccess.com (Judy Kavanaugh)
Subject: tolerance

Hi all,

I somehow lost the message sent from Gloria as to whether or not she should
continue to post to this group.  I find this question most distressing for
the following reasons:  I think the kundalini problem is a most
misunderstood dilemma in this materialistic culture of ours and often it
takes incredibly good fortune and lots of diligence on our parts to find the
answers to our questions.  Iif we happen to find kindred souls who truly
understand the nature of our myriad of problems, we are truly blessed.  

Just because we might happen to have extraordinary perceptions and sometimes
mystical and extrasensory powers does not make us any better than the
general population at large.  It is what is in one's heart that elevates a
person above the next guy on the street.  As we would hope that others who
do not experience what we do would have tolerance for what we endure, it
would seem only fair that we should also extend that tolerance to others who
may not share our views about something as personal as kundalini.  Perhaps
this is one of the most important lessons we can learn from our own trials.  

Yes, Gloria I would very much like to hear what you have to say, for I
believe that everyone who cares about what I am going through has a message
that I need to hear.  I don't necessarily have to agree with what you say,
nor do you have to agree with my opinions, but agreement isn't necessary for
a healthy discussion to proceed and God forbid we should all agree anyway.
What a bore that would be.  

So perhaps we all need to rethink our position on this.  I would hope that
we would be big enough to include someone who's opinions differ because
maybe, just maybe, she has something to teach us.  And if kundalini doesn't
generate a greater sense of compassion in all of us, what is the point?

Judy
 


 [4]: From: Carlo Izzo 
Subject: tolerance

> Hi all,
> 
> I somehow lost the message sent from Gloria as to whether or not she should
> continue to post to this group.  

	I personally think she was just acting tragic: no one ever told her
	not to post. Somebody just told her that no one of us is the teacher
	of the others - after a long sequence of messages in a know-it-all
	style from her side.

> So perhaps we all need to rethink our position on this.  I would hope that
> we would be big enough to include someone who's opinions differ because
> maybe, just maybe, she has something to teach us.  And if kundalini doesn't
> generate a greater sense of compassion in all of us, what is the point?

	Apparently, kundalini awakening is not generating this sort of
	compassion. Who knows? Maybe it just generates a deeper sense
	of justice - or beauty, or longevity...

	In any case, Gloria can post as much as she likes. We personally
	disliked her previous posts, but maybe they will improve. Maybe 
	she will stop teaching about God and the Holy Spirit in connection
	with kundalini (after all, kundalini is an observed and real
	fact - while I am not quite sure about Allah, Jeovah or Zeus).
	We are not religious, and we don't have the Truth in our pocket.
	We are just practical people, and we want to try to understand
	what kundalini is, and what to do with it. If possible. And we
	are willing to share experiences about kundalini with other people.

	Ciao, Zana and Carlo 
	(actually my wife is sleeping now, but I know she agrees).


 [5]: From: "Debee L. Thomas"
Subject: Re: Opinion vs Fact

> 	My wife and I are with Bill: we were a bit disappointed too.
> 	Even neglecting the lack of actual or useful information in 
> 	those messages, we felt that such constant reference to God,
> 	the Holy Spirit, etc., was completely out of place. It is
> 	our opinion that kundalini is a solid fact that exists 
> 	independently of the religion we follow. That is a personal

Does it really matter what name we give this higher power?  Is there a 
need to become upset by what another person chooses to call it?  I liken 
our walk to a wheel.  The center being the 'true source' and it can be 
called by a great many things.  We each travel a path (spoke) and they 
all lead directly to the same place.  Since we all travel a seemingly 
similar path, is there really a need to make another wrong or right 
because of what they choose to call it?  I'm new here and am in no means 
trying to stir up trouble.  But I would sincerely hope that people will 
stop and consider this.

Blessed Be

Debee


 
 [6]: From: "Debee L. Thomas" 
Subject: Re: Opinion vs Fact Bill answer

> Sorry if you felt that I've answering to direct.  When I have someone ask me
> about my experience I share it as it happens.  So many people don't have the
> words to explain what is happening to them, at least the people who have
> written to me.  So, I respond in the way spirit is directing me to. I'm sorry
> if it seems unappropriate to you.  Things are never the way they seem. Maybe
> you should take a look at that also. GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com

I personally can gain a lot of insight from the experiences of others and 
appreciate all feedback.  After all, it is still up to each individual to 
ultimately piece the parts together for him/herself.  

Blessed Be

Debee


 
 [7]: From: "Debee L. Thomas"
Subject: Re: Good Advice

On Sun, 9 Jun 1996 GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:

> I have got letters from two people asking me to continue to post, what do you
> want? Gloria 
> 
I joined this list to hear from everyone and in whatever way they choose 
to present it.  If it becomes censored, as do so many others, I 
personally wish to be removed from the list.  

Blessed Be

Debee


 [8]: From: "Debee L. Thomas"
Subject: Re: tolerance

> I somehow lost the message sent from Gloria as to whether or not she should
> continue to post to this group.  I find this question most distressing for

I too found this to be very distressing.  

> answers to our questions.  Iif we happen to find kindred souls who truly
> understand the nature of our myriad of problems, we are truly blessed.  

I thought that this is what it was all about?  Kindred Spirits.  If so, 
who are we to judge another for having a different personal truth than 
our own?  

> Yes, Gloria I would very much like to hear what you have to say, for I
> believe that everyone who cares about what I am going through has a message
> that I need to hear.  I don't necessarily have to agree with what you say,
> nor do you have to agree with my opinions, but agreement isn't necessary for
> a healthy discussion to proceed and God forbid we should all agree anyway.
> What a bore that would be.  

Judy's words reflected my own thought.  I thank you for sharing them Judy 
and hope that others will take them to heart.

> So perhaps we all need to rethink our position on this.  I would hope that
> we would be big enough to include someone who's opinions differ because
> maybe, just maybe, she has something to teach us.  And if kundalini doesn't
> generate a greater sense of compassion in all of us, what is the point?

An open mind is one that can be taught.  And what we learn, we can share 
with others.

Blessed Be

Debee


 [9]: From: Carlo Izzo 
Subject: Re: Opinion vs Fact

> 
> Does it really matter what name we give this higher power?  

	Actually, it doesn't matter. But it has already a name: kundalini...

> Is there a 
> need to become upset by what another person chooses to call it?  I liken 
> our walk to a wheel.  The center being the 'true source' and it can be 
> called by a great many things.  We each travel a path (spoke) and they 
> all lead directly to the same place.  Since we all travel a seemingly 
> similar path, is there really a need to make another wrong or right 
> because of what they choose to call it?  

	I completely agree with your view. Nevertheless I had the feeling
	she felt already at the center of the wheel. Maybe I was wrong...

	Shalom,   Carlo


[10]: From: Richard Satin
Subject: RE: Tolerance and Manners

I for one would not like Gloria to feel that she can't post to the group. 
She has a lot of experience, and unique insights which we all can benefit
from.  I have placed her personal story on the nascent experience page (http
://www.execpc.com/~libra/awaken.html), which would not have happened if I
felt negatively towards her.  On the other hand, I have a responsibility to
all of you to make sure that we maintain a climate where all feel can secure
enough to post - including and especially the quieter souls.   

There are as many distinctive voices here as there are members.  For this
list to function effectively, we all must walk very gently and with mutual
respect.  I respect everyone on this list who has posted or sent me private
email - including you Gloria.  We may not agree on how to interpret what it
is that we are going through.  But we are all experiencing it.  As much as I
want to understand the ultimate meanings (and this has been my motivating
force since childhood), there's a level at which none of what we conceive
does justice to what simply is.  To me it seems that kundalini operates just
on that line.  If this is the case, then it may be that love for one another
is perhaps the most important thing which we can share on kundalini-l.

I've been troubled by the situation as it develops.  I'm certain that Gloria
is motivated by a heartfelt desire to help.   And she, like the rest of us,
can do that just by simply being here.  Posting, it seems to me, though the
basis of the list, is not the essential quality.  Yet, other people have
been offended by what they rightly or wrongly interpret as heavy-handedness
in the quantity and content of some of her posts.  I don't have an answer
for this, except to stress balance and mutual respect. 

It's unfortunate that we have to face this so early in the list's existence.
 But the nature of the medium is such that etiquette - manners - are even
more important here than in actual face to face contact.   Maybe we have to
define these as we work with this list.  Frans wrote that this is like a
marriage.  Did anyone else get a laugh out of that?  I sure did.  (Thanks,
Frans)  Well, I'm divorced, so I obviously didn't do too well in that
department the first time around - but I learned.  We can learn and grow
through this as well.  

Am I wrong in thinking that this could be one of the first blockages we have
to break through for the electronic serpent to work his way up?  Which
chakra is the most repressed here?

It may sound hokey, but I mean this in the truest and best sense:  Let's all
try to have love for one another.  Sound fair?  

Other thoughts?

Richard

--


[11]: From: CKRESSATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: So much heart energy

In the wee hours of the morning I felt/heard a new sensation: the buzzing of
"bees" in my heart chakra.  Today, finding all your kind words to me in the
Kundalini mail list, I understood.  Quite literally, you are making my heart
sing!

Now I must make a confession.  I am Internet illiterate.  I have a pc on
which I do word processing (and database work for the newsletter), but my
husband Charles is the computer whiz (at least from my vantage point).  I
compose my email messages on my dinosaur Multimate program, then Charles
takes them off disk and does whatever magic he does to convert them to bona
fide electronic mail.  If it were not for him, you would never hear from me.
 He has kept me grounded, sane, safe and alive through these roller coaster
years when no one else I have ever personally known could have stood by me or
understood me so deeply.  I make all the noise, but without him, Shared
Transformation newsletter and Web pages would not exist.  He devotes untold
hours every week on all the behind the scenes work -- and there is a *lot* of
work -- to keep the newsletter going.  Yet he has never expressed the
slightest disappointment or jealousy when people, not realizing his enormous
contribution, give me all the glory.  He is truly a great soul and by his
example I learn much about the beauty of humility and selfless giving.  (He
will be embarrassed that I am gushing over him so, but he always indulges my
desires so I am pretty certain I will be able to *softly* twist his arm to
get him to send this email to the list anyway.)

I also want to say to Carlo and any other husbands, wives, partners and loyal
friends of those of us going through awakening: DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE YOUR OWN
SPIRITUAL BEAUTY!!!  Just because you are not the "identified target" of the
risen Kundalini does not in any way mean you are not equally involved in
profound spiritual growth.  It may well be that your loving support of your
spiritually awakening partner is more soul-stretching and blessed than it is
to be directly experiencing Kundalini manifestations.  Gopi Krishna,
throughout his life, repeatedly gave credit to his beloved wife for her
unflinching support and help to him throughout everything.  Without her, he
would not have lived to tell his tale.  (Those of you who are going through
awakening solo -- without a close friend or partner -- are a marvel to me.  I
don't know how you manage.)

Since some people on the list have asked for info, a year's subscription to
Shared Transformation newsletter costs $12 U.S., $13.50 Canada and $16.50
elsewhere.  Make out checks or money orders to Sun Chariot Press and send to:
Sun Chariot Press, PO Box 5562, Oakland, CA 94605 (U.S.)

Love to you all,
El Collie


 
[12]: From: "Debee L. Thomas"
Subject: RE: Tolerance and Manners

> It may sound hokey, but I mean this in the truest and best sense:  Let's all
> try to have love for one another.  Sound fair?  


I would like to thank you for this post Richard.  In fact, our messages 
crossed in the mail so-to-speak.  I just wrote you a private one on this 
very topic.  Loving one another and respecting one anothers differences 
is what growth and learning are all about.  After all, we are all 
connected on a soul level.  This is my belief anyway.  You may or may not 
agree and that is ok.  I'm always open to other ideas because I'm on a 
personal quest to grow and evolve as much as I can during this lifetime.  
I'd like to thank each and every person personally for their input, but 
more important, I'd like to thank you for being YOU.

Sincerely and Blessed Be

Debee


[13]: From: "Debee L. Thomas" 
Subject: Re: Opinion vs Fact

> 	I completely agree with your view. Nevertheless I had the feeling
> 	she felt already at the center of the wheel. Maybe I was wrong...
> 
> 	Shalom,   Carlo


This is the one tragic pitfall of electronic media.  We can not 'see' nor 
truly always 'feel' the space by which a person is coming from.  The only 
thing we can truly do is respect one another.  In the end, all will work 
well because we are all seeking the same thing in one way or another are 
we not?  

Blessed Be

Debee


[14]: From: Melissa Ann Fornof
Subject: religious differences

Let me begin by saying that my last post was not intended as a personal 
attack on Gloria.  It was a general address to everyone on the list 
making a suggestion to aid free communication without anyone getting 
offended or hurt.  I was not targeting any one person.

I never got any post saying that Gloria was considering not posting, or 
else I somehow erased it before I read it.  However, from posts made 
since, I think we can see two truths on the subject:  Some people have 
been offended by Gloria's manner of presenting her ideas; and also that 
no one wants her to stop posting on the list.

Someone mentioned that we should respect each other's differences.  Well, 
this is exactly what my post was about.  Gloria, you tend to present your 
beliefs as fact.  This does not show respect for others of different 
faiths.  For instance, you once made a comment about how aligning your 
will with God's makes the process easier.  While that may be true for 
you, how might this comment sound to an athiast or a Bhuddist?  There is 
a potential here with such belief-as-fact statements to offend someone of 
another faith.  All we are asking, Gloria, is that you put qualifiers on 
your statements, such as "I believe," "my opinion is," "what works for me 
is," etcetera.  This way you can state your beliefs, fully explain your 
experiences, give suggestions for others to try, and mention God as many 
times as you like without offending anyone.  Everyone, myself included, 
wants you to continue to post.  Everyone is interested in hearing your 
experiences and your suggestions--so long as they are presented as 
suggestions and not the only way to go.  Kundalini does manifest itself 
differently for everyone, and there are many different relions out there.

This IS about mutual respect, love, and respecting other's differences.  
It came out in the postings that several people on the list were 
offended, if only slightly, by your presentation.  So, in response, I and 
others are trying to help you avoid that in the future and prevent others 
from doing it.  Sometimes, teachers make the worst students.  I can 
uderstand how you might have trouble accepting advice from people when 
you have been teaching in special classes and one-on-one so long. But  
All love and respect is intended from all of us--no one is trying to jump 
your case or offend you or hurt you in any way.  I think I speak for 
everyone by apologizing for any emotional injury you may have incurred 
during this.

I hope I have put some clarity into this issue--I sometimes can't find 
quite the right words to express what is in my heart and people 
misunderstand me.  So, all feel free to comment on this message.  I hope 
you continue to post, Gloria--no one has had a problem with your content, 
just your presentation.  There is a world of difference between the two. 
I hope that now we can all continue loving communications without offense 
.  Love to all,
   Melissa


[15]: From: Carlo Izzo
Subject: So much heart energy

> 
> I also want to say to Carlo and any other husbands, wives, partners and loyal
> friends of those of us going through awakening: DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE YOUR OWN
> SPIRITUAL BEAUTY!!!  

	Dear El, actually I am not such a good person, and I have to
	confess that I am a bit jealous of this kundalini thing that my
	wife can feel and I can't. I have also little hope to awake my
	own kundalini: I am probably too nervous, impatient, etc (as I
	already mentioned). Sometimes I have the feeling I am more an 
	obstacle than a help to Zana: when she flies too high, I find
	myself trying to carry her back to the ground. We have some
	heated discussion, at times, even if eventually we find that
	we agree on the essentials. To give you an example, I hate when 
	she begins to throw coins to get advice with the I Ching. But 
	later in the night, while I am alone, I sit on the floor and 
	throw the coins myself...

	We both agree that the I Ching is "just" one out of many way 
	to access the beauty and the harmony of some ancient wisdom.

> Just because you are not the "identified target" of the
> risen Kundalini does not in any way mean you are not equally involved in
> profound spiritual growth.  

	I do hope so... otherwise my life would have no reason to be. 
	Actually, sometimes I think that I understand a lot - even if 
	I do not meditate and did not experience kundalini awakening.
	On the other side, quite often I feel miserable, frustrated,
	angry - and useless.

	I am personally more and more happy to have joined this list.
	I especially like your messages, El: I don't know exactly why, 
	but what you write sounds very _right_ to me. And you sound so 
	calm, joyful and in peace with yourself and others...

	Also, you seem very reasonable - a fundamental thing for me!  ;-)

	Ciao,   Carlo


 
[16]: From: Carlo Izzo
Subject: religious differences

 [...]

> is," etcetera.  This way you can state your beliefs, fully explain your 
> experiences, give suggestions for others to try, and mention God as many 
> times as you like without offending anyone.  

	This is exactly what I think.

 [...]
> Everyone, myself included, wants you to continue to post.  

	Yes, this is true.

 [...]
> your case or offend you or hurt you in any way.  I think I speak for 
> everyone by apologizing for any emotional injury you may have incurred 
> during this.

	And I have also to apologize: I know that sometimes I am too
	hard in my comments, and I may be easily misunderstood (after
	all English is not my mother language). Gloria, _please_
	keep posting. I am sorry.

	Ciao,   Carlo


 
[17]: From: Jim Cook
Subject: Haiku

                                  The Awakening


                 The sleeping snake awakes
                 I leep from my old rumpled bed
                 A new world awaits me

                 Jim cook